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I have been talking to a lot of our customers over the last few months and many of the most enthusiastic among them are asking when we’ll have our driver update to support 3D Vision Surround. We’re also get the same inquiries from press folks looking to do reviews of 3D Vision Surround.

The fact is we are not ready yet – the surround driver needs some final improvements. When we first showed this technology live at CES in January, we expected this to become available with the first release of our 256 branch driver which was then targeted for April. Our new target for 3D Vision Surround is the end of June in a follow-on release of this 256 driver branch. Our first 256 based driver is planned to post to nvidia.com on May 24th and will enable new SLI setup controls and improve performance on several key applications for GTX 400 GPUs.

When we launch the 3D Vision Surround driver at the end of June, we will provide a game list and guidance on how to get the best experience with this cool new technology. I am looking forward to it!

If you have any questions, let me know in the comments below.

  • chizow

    Hi Tom,
    Thanks for the update, I think many GeForce fans are greatly anticipating this driver release so solid news and info is appreciated.
    A few points of clarification if you don’t mind:
    1) It sounds like 3D Vision Surround is not going to be included in the initial 256 release, does this also mean no Nvidia Surround until June?
    2) There is also a subset of users that are looking for multi-monitor “Extended Desktop” support in SLI for more than 2 monitors for productivity/non-3D apps. Currently, SLI mode limits desktop output to 2 displays, so disabling SLI is required to output to more than 2 displays. Will the initial May 24th R256 drivers allow for more than 2 displays in SLI mode?
    3) What kind of performance improvements can we expect for GTX 400 series cards? Worth a shot anyways. :)
    4) Are there any 3D Vision Control Panel/overlay improvements in either one of these updates? There’s been rumors advanced settings like Convergence would be more exposed to the end-user in a future driver release.
    Thanks in advance!

  • askdj

    Sounds to me like they’re holding it for the next geforce product release

  • Keith

    Oh well, Nvidia only managed to be out by 3 whole months. Incredible.

  • duhokay

    Oh how kind of Tom…thanks Tom for a reply well over a month after the expected release date of these drivers. So if you are that far out then what were you doing printing this feature on the boxes of these cards? You should be ashamed of yourself Nvidia, this is no way to treat customers.

  • anon

    I love how people complain about premature drivers not being released, and don’t appreciate the fact that they can at least be immersed in a true DX11 experience until then. Just be thankful that Nvidia is actually trying to fully test their software before releasing it now.
    Would you guys like to have another 196.75?
    Besides 3DVS will be relevant to maybe <2% of consumer base? They need to cater to the majority of users first.

  • nonan

    So we can give back our cards and buy eyefinity instead?
    So you cant do what you promised to do.
    How are you planning to compensate this?
    WHAT DO WE GET INSTEAD?
    Or where shall i send my cards to get my money back?
    You must be kidding me ….

  • twack3r

    Hi Tom,
    as good ole chizow said, thanks for the update, it’s much appreciated.
    Just to put us early GTX480(SLI) adopters at ease, you’re not perchance holding out on this release in view of a new top dog being launched within the given timeframe which will be required to run 3DVS as it should be, are you?
    Again, thanks for the update, but some very important questions remain to be answered.
    All the Best,
    twack3r

  • nonan

    +add
    if you cant make it work yourself, id say youd have to buy Matrox TripleHead2Go for every customer that fell for you promises …
    Matrox will be happy, and I bet those guys from ATI/AMD have a shine bright smile on their faces till june (if you can make it till june [I personally doubt that])
    So I guess your customers are allowed to wait with their payments 2 month aswell?

  • Mike K

    I understand you need to get the drivers right before release, I APPLAUDE the effort all driver developers have to go to. I despise PR hype that attempts to gain market share with a product that is clearly not availabe/ready. I have been a faithful nVid and multi monitor user for many years. I have a fist full of cash waiting to be used on at least 2 GFX cards. Your PR camps insitance on selling false promise is making me look for other GFX card solutions that do the same thing…..
    I am greatful for the update, and dissapointed to have waited so long for it. Its 2010, not 1950, for customers to remain loyal, they need to remain informed of the “TRUTH” be it good or bad.
    Your (red) competitors regognise this enough to activley participate in forums such as the WSGF (wide screen gaming forum) and keep users up to date, admit to faults, look for solutions, and generally listen very closely to consumer needs/requests/suggestions, not PR back slapping on a job, “half” well done…
    nVid could well take a leaf from this book and recognise that its customers are looking for service, not hype with smoke and mirrors.
    I anxiously await the nVid 256 driver release to make an informed decision on my next purchase, you have 6 weeks, pls dont dissapoint again….
    Mike K

  • duhokay

    Great post, just be happy you did not purchase these cards at release like myself and many others did. So it’s “okay” to lie as long as it is to only a certain percentage. Well you are right, Nvidia PR thinks this way, just not me.

  • AlsoAnon

    “Besides 3DVS will be relevant to maybe <2% of consumer base?”
    Seriously. I mean we’re talking about what, 3 rich spoiled kids in the country that can actually afford the stuff for this? The normal user isn’t going to be using this. TBH, they may as well just cancel the whole thing. It won’t affect anyone, at least not myself. My allowance isn’t big enough to buy the gear needed!

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p0133edae7f96970b luis

    this :
    1) It sounds like 3D Vision Surround is not going to be included in the initial 256 release, does this also mean no Nvidia Surround until June?
    and this :
    So we can give back our cards and buy eyefinity instead?
    So you cant do what you promised to do.
    How are you planning to compensate this?
    WHAT DO WE GET INSTEAD?
    Or where shall i send my cards to get my money back?
    I sold my GTX 295 plus for peanuts , and purchased two GTX 480’s since it was a requirement to use SLI surround , that is plastered on the box the GTX 480’s came in . why did Nvidia advertise this feature at various outlets if it wasn’t ready ? this seems worse than over compressed HDTV , at least its there and can be fixed . I really hope NV didn’t take softTH and try to dress it up then call it surround.
    where do i send my cards ?

  • PK

    U don’t have to be rich to buy these cards and want what Nvidia promised at launch. This is typical BS that should have been expected when they pumped out fake cards for display. You should do partial refunds to those who already spent their hard earned cash thinking you guys would come through. This is absolute crap. I own a freaking 480 out of loyalty. Seems to be one way nowadays. No more though.

  • PK

    Hey luis, I hear you and I’m frustrated too. I feel like initiating a First class law suit. AMF, I’m going to look into this. If nothing else, they are false advertising, trying to compete in a market they have no business in currently. You’re not ready, don’t effing launch.
    Last time ATI did this, they were advertising HD in their previous gen cards, they paid out handsomely–at least people got an extra video card out of the BS. They learned their lessons as Nvidia will. This is wrong and just because you post an exclamation after months post-launch to let us know you’re not ready is a let down beyond let downs.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p0133edae7f96970b luis

    guess when the drivers do come out it will be spot on (surround) , if not why not just release them like all other drivers and have “us” the end user tell whats missing , wrong , not working ……because thats not going to happen , they will work flawlessly ….right .
    sorry im a bit T’ed off that i got suckered into this waiting game , and I just dumped a good down payment for a car on better hardware just so I could get the best experience possible from my NEW Nvidia cards . $4000 total

  • PK

    Directed at Tom Peterson, not Chiz…
    You guys have no business putting out a card that doesn’t do what’s being advertised in previews, reviews and what’s on the effing box. You just wanted a piece of the effing pie because ATI had you all by your balls. To that end, we, the customer pays by waiting, and waiting for you all to get your crap together and of course with our hard earned cash.
    I’m not impressed because you posted this–I don’t see you guys being sincere here. You waited until you took all you could from us and gave no insight into the future of fermi–that is until now. Now you feel you can provide information? You guys have an agenda and it’s not with our best interest in mind. You guys deserve whatever happens to your reputation beyond Fermi.

  • Mike

    Sorry to hear that Luis. They can’t even admit via an apology what they just rammed in our asses.

  • duhokay

    Really happy to see support from people on this. We need to keep pressing this issue because it is not being addressed by Nvidia.

  • Anon

    What box said it was included in the box? All that I’ve seen say 3D Vision Surround Ready.
    It’s kind of hard to claim it’s false advertisement when it’s advertised as having the ability to support the technology. GTX 480 has hardware support for it, but software isn’t ready yet.
    On one hand I can see how it might be misleading if you don’t understand that the drivers aren’t there, yet. On the other hand, this is technology that the GPU supports, and that also needs to be communicated.

  • VLS

    End of June? I think I’m going red :(

  • EVR

    Is the EVR Custom Presenter in MPC-HC bugs fully fixed in the 256.xx drivers?
    http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=166192

  • PK

    It clearly says on the top
    3D VISION (this is bold) SURROUND
    PHYSX
    CUDA
    SLI
    On the side, it says 3d vision ready. SO yeah, it clearly is FALSE ADVERTISEMENT. It’s not on the box to show future technology that this car will embrace once NVIDIA gets their crap together. It’s there, with SLI showing these are the tech features available now.
    I have an EVGA product and I’m pretty sure YOU didn’t read your box correctly.

  • PK

    Just to follow up under FEATURES. My box says 3D Vision surround Ready. This means it can send a signal to all three monitors but the monitors, glasses make the “READY” portion relevant. You have to buy 120mhz monitors and NV 3d kit to utilize this particular feature. The simple version of this tech is surround display or eyefinity like feature. Either way, this tells us we get this feature now and the minimum to run three monitors but not in 3D.

  • anon

    Sure is whining around here.

  • Anon

    So it says it’s 3D Vision Surround ready, and then it shows what the capabilities of 3D Vision Surround will be. Where I can understand how you may feel mislead, it’s clearly NOT false advertisement. At least not in the definition that would win any law suit.
    I have Zotac boxes, I’ve seen the EVGA boxes and a couple of the others. They’re all pretty much the same. They promote 3D Vision Surround (and all of NV’s other technologies) and then list the card as 3D Vision Surround Ready.

  • http://www.eocf.com UrbanSmooth@EOCF

    Hi, thanks for the update, Tom. I am looking forward to the surround, not really the 3D. I bought two GTX 480s for SLI and the surround gaming experience. The 3D really does not concern me at this time.
    Would it be possible to just release, if even, a BETA of the surround drivers? I really look forward to no longer having to mess with several settings just to get SoftTH to work with ‘old’ games like CoD4. Thanks.

  • chizow

    Actually it looks like EVGA is at fault for not including the rest of the disclaimer language included in that stock Nvidia art/blurb they used on their box.
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_480_us.html
    “1 NVIDIA 3D Vision Surround requires upcoming NVIDIA release 256 driver, two or more graphics cards in NVIDIA SLI configuration, 3D Vision glasses, and 3D Vision-Ready displays. See http://www.nvidia.com/surround for more information. ”
    It was made clear since launch day, March 26th, in reviews and Nvidia’s own documentation that the 3D Vision Surround drivers were not ready and would be released at a future date with the R256 drivers.
    So while I can understand some of the frustration of those complaining about waiting, its really hard to empathize with anyone who bought the carriage before the horse, given a bit of due diligence beforehand would have made it clear this feature was not ready. If the feature was that important to you and a deal-breaker, you can probably pursue refund without much problem, especially if you bring up “false advertisement”. Given these cards have only been available for about 30 days you should be OK, but you may have to hurry.
    I certainly think Nvidia did the right thing by the overwhelming majority of their customers in releasing Fermi cards first with serviceable drivers rather than hold up the launch any further by waiting for the R256 drivers and 3D Vision Surround support to be finished. I think the vast majority of GTX 400 series owners would agree with me.

  • MM

    Why are you posting this in a blog that nobody reads? yeah sure you hit fb and twitter but when someone goes looking for support where are they going to go? THE FORUMS!
    If you want to have a convesation then you should do it where the community has the conversations. Then when others look for assistance they can easily find this information.

  • ToH

    is there estimate date to 3DTV play driver?

  • PK

    Thanks…you could neither afford a video card or an education to support any damn thought beyond “stfu”. And never say anything you’re not willing to say to ones face.

  • PK

    A few points. Surround gaming was touted from the very beginning and was the very motivation for some to make this purchase.
    “3d surround gaming” denotes the need for purchasing the glasses and monitor(s) separately. Thus labeled as “ready” if you have the supported hardware.
    The box also says “SLI ready” however without the purchase of another video card, SLI can’t be utilized. The use of “ready” now becomes a contradiction (to follow your argument). This clearly adds to consumer confusion.
    ATI also failed a first class lawsuit by claiming their cards were HDCP ready. See http://www.aticlassaction.com/ as a reference point. Winning a class action suit is winnable under a variety of other assumptions to include intent and cost. The use of “ready”, “compliant” or otherwise “conforming to” was the premise of such FCCL. Moreover, a win to the consumer doesn’t even have to assert Nvidia’s guilty (by any legal term).
    Nvidia only recently modified their site to show the now infamous 256 driver requirement. This was not listed prior to (or seldom was) aside from the assumption that driver and hardware (as one) would be ready to perform as indicated. At worst, consumers were led to believe that the drivers would be distributed in a reasonable time-frame post launch.
    Misleading or being mislead (false advertising) is usually what many lawsuits are fundamentally based on. The question really is, if you knew (at launch) that your card would not satisfy your requirements, would you have made the purchase to begin with?
    The box itself, even if debated isn’t the sole piece of evidence that gives credence to intent or misrepresentation of facts. Consumers are angry for spending money on something that “by now” should adhere to specification.
    What’s “clear” here is how “unclear” Nvidia was in their marketing.

  • Keith

    PK, don’t listen to Diceman. He’s probably an insecure teenager.
    Your points are valid.

  • Keith

    PK, don’t listen to Diceman. He’s probably an insecure teenage punk anyway.
    Your points are valid.

  • AngelicaM

    anon, “be thankful nvidia is trying”?
    Professional companies like Nvidia shouldn’t be thanked for coming up short. And when they do, their actions should be immediate, not months later.

  • Nik

    the replies look to be directed at TOM as a result of the BS update. People will read this, look at the recommendations and comments. Forums get you banned or your comments deleted.
    Anon, get yourself a clue before posting.

  • PK

    I tend to think more people would not agree with you. This was a poor launch preceded by less than truthful introductions to the fermi technology.
    …and it wasn’t clear on launch day that people would wait until June for the correct drivers to make their cards fully operational. They implied that drivers would be distributed with, or close to launch day (that’s the 256 future update).
    The fix isn’t returning the cards. The fix is within Nvidia and their subsidiaries. Bad business practice hurts the company and their customers. I believe EVGA and others thought Nvidia would have the fix implemented in a timely manner. They too had failed expectations.

  • Nvidiaowner

    the fact you have to ask say so much about the direction of this company.
    I too question their agenda.

  • chizow

    Wait, so you really think the expectations of the user group defined by the intersection of the 2% of SLI users AND the <3% of users that run a resolution greater than 1920×1200 is more important than the 98+% of users who were thrilled the wait was over so that they could enjoy their new GTX 400 cards? That’s certainly a myopic and egocentric take on the situation. (See Steam survey for data points)
    Again, I’d say if you polled GTX 400 series owners you’d get very close to concensus agreeing Nvidia made the right decision to launch the cards first with serviceable 197 drivers rather than delay the launch another 2 months for a value-add feature like 3DVS when the 256 drivers were ready.
    As for whether it was made clear or not….almost every launch review on March 26th clearly stated the 3DVS drivers were not ready at launch and would not be until the R256 drivers were released; simultaneously, the first official guidance from Nvidia was released on their page stating “Scheduled for April”. So while they’ve certainly missed their “scheduled” date, you could not buy these cards prior to April 7th in the US and later than that abroad, so it would have been impossible for you to buy these cards with the expectation the feature was ready out-of-the-box if you had simply done your due diligence.
    If you do not feel you are getting what you paid for, the fix is to simply return the cards and either go with the what the competition is offering or revisit these cards when the feature is delivered to your satisfaction. That’s certainly what I do anytime I feel the product I bought failed to meet my expectations or any promises made, explicit or implied. I can tell you for sure stomping your feet and whining about it won’t get them released any sooner, just as crying foul about unfulfilled promises that were never made won’t get them released any sooner.
    Without being too presumptuous about your buying tendencies or past experiences with cutting edge technology, I’d just offer some perspective that living on the bleeding edge is always going to come with some growing pains, so if that’s not appealing to you, you may consider taking a step back from the ledge and allow the tech to become more mainstream/refined before making the leap and going all in.

  • applejack

    so driver is late, big deal…
    for reference, ATI was marketing their Radeons 3xxx & 4xxx series as if it supported Havok’s physics processing – never happened. what about the tesselator unit never being used? I could name a few more promises of bright future & features fading out softly with time. take that for an agenda.
    at least “we” get what we pay for, sooner or later anyway. :)
    also, if you go out and buy some 2x high-end GTX + 3d kit + 2x supported LCD’s, you SHOULD do some minimal internet research at least. find out you CAN’T actually use 3DVS until some weird 256 driver pops out (now I bet every kiddo would notice 197 –> 256 might NOT happen right away, assuming he has a bit of a clew about driver update routines). worst scenario (u r noob) – you go and ask some guy. otherwise – honestly I think you DESERVE getting “nailed”, this kind of people are good business.

  • Nvidiaowner

    your point, somewhere buried in that commentary is what?
    Most people are not concerned about the 3D portion of NV surround. Most people had a triple monitor setup and awaited the new fermi tech to hit shelves.
    Although I wasn’t waiting on the 3Dvision portion of the tech, it was still an important aspect of the technology that has not been delivered as of today. I’m sure (most) everyone expected Nvidia to have a fix relatively shortly after launch. I say that because that’s the only way many consumers were willing to play the waiting game after paying high dollars for their enjoyment–and that was taking Nvidia for their technological word.
    So a driver late is a driver late—and that applejack makes people feel burned. Getting nailed isn’t “good business” by any stretch. The cards DO NOT operate as they should because most of their marketed features haven’t been enabled via late drivers.

  • Scott

    As a customer who just paid over $1100 on two new 470GTX cards plus a new power supply, installed them, and then went searching to find the “Surround” feature, I have to agree– at the very least, I feel mislead and pretty frustrated/angry by the box that showed the feature on the front cover. Granted it says “Ready” but it was not made clear what that meant. “Ready” once you download the driver was my impression. If it had said “COMING SOON” then I never would have made the purchase or waisted my time installing. The irony– I pulled out an ATI 5870 that worked great. The only reason for the change was Adobe’s CS5 support of CUDA. NVidia, you’ve left a really bad impression on a customer who’s willing to spend the money to buy top notch hardware. I’ll be heading back to the store to get a refund.

  • Dave

    All I want to be able to do is use the 3 monitors and the 2 GTX’s I purchased for surround gaming as prophesized by nVidia !
    I have been an nVidia supporter for years now, always buying their top tier cards, at launch for top dollar but I have really had a hard time of late not just heading to the ATI camp, where I can purchase an equally powerful card, that supports what they advertise out of the box at a lesser price … I must be daft !
    C’mon nVidia … get it dealt with … release drivers to at least support multi monitor gaming now.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/ntersectblogauthorstpetersen Tom Petersen

    Hey @chizow, thanks for replying to my blog post
    Here are responses to your questions, in order:
    1. NVIDIA 3D Vision Surround and NVIDIA Surround will both be enabled with the 256 driver release at the end of June.
    2. Yes and No. Our new driver is either in Surround mode or not. In Surround, we use slightly different techniques that allow games and the desktop to use three monitors. We do provide resolutions to games so that you can set up a particular game to run on a single display, but in those case the performance will not be as good as it would have been with just SLI on and surround off. I do like the idea of making this more flexible in the future though.
    3. We will be providing more details in June on the performance improvements. Stay tuned.
    4. There are some new configuration controls for SLI in the new releases, but no new function related to convergence.
    Thanks again for you interest.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/tompetersen Tom Petersen

    @duhokay It is true that we missed the initial timeline that we targeted – coincident with the launch of GTX 480. However, it is not true that we were misleading our customers on our boxes. Our direction to partners was to clearly state that this new feature will become available with a future driver release based on the 256 branch. The delay is regrettable for sure, but intent was not to mislead.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/tompetersen Tom Petersen

    Thanks for your support anon. DX11 does change gaming and I do think most of our customers appreciate it.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/tompetersen Tom Petersen

    No arguments from us on that.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/tompetersen Tom Petersen

    @twack3r Nope, not holding it back. We are just as eager to get this out as you are to get it.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/tompetersen Tom Petersen

    @Mike K I understand your frustration. I want you to know that we are actively trying to improve our communications with our fans. We are looking to you guys to help us recognize areas we can improve – and even identify things you like from us.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/tompetersen Tom Petersen

    @MM Good point, We have added this as a forum thread as well.

  • rikrak

    AMD/ATI ROCK! NVIDIA SINK!
    *quote taken from personal experience, by troubleshooting, mod, oc, etc.

  • uKER

    Why would you want to detail in June the performance improvements introduced in a driver that is scheduled for May 24?

  • micah

    Tom, for those of us gearing up our rigs for 3DVS can you confirm that Tri-SLI will be supported? Obviously SLI is required for 3DVS but are there technical challenges when making the jump from SLI to Tri-SLI which could prevent 3DVS working in 3-way mode initially?
    Any insight, even if it’s just speculation would be helpful.

  • Slipstream

    Thanks Tom for at least replying to nvidia users concerns here. I, too, was lulled into buying 3 120hz monitors and 2 480’s early as I was lead to believe from your newsletter, received end of April, that the driver release was imminent. However, I am just happy that Nvidia have invested in 3D surround as it has been my dream ever since the Parhelia days. After my initial annoyance I am now more than happy to wait, personally.
    Keep up the good work team.

  • chizow

    Thanks for taking the time to respond!
    2. Very interesting, so it sounds like there will be some performance trade-off in running in Surround mode. In the past there was sometimes a need to change single-display, multi-display, and compatibility performance mode settings for best results in specific games/apps, Surround Mode with just 1 display sounds similar. Also it sounds like non-homogenous screen resolutions may not be supported at all in Surround Mode (again, this is mainly the desktop/productivity angle).
    3. Is this meant to state May 24th for the first round of specific game improvements?
    Any more details would be great but we’re close enough to the first driver release that we’ll be able to see for ourselves. Thanks again for taking the time to correspond with us. :)

  • NVIDIA FanBoy4Life

    Reading about the technology of spanning across three monitors with two cards, I am left wondering,
    In regards to 3dvision surround or NVIDIA surround in general
    1. Will the cards scale together in SLI to render the spanned image and then send the info out on the dvi ports, or
    2. Will the first card render the spanned resolution and use the second card solely as a display port?
    I’m sure NVIDIA wants the spanned resolution to be scaled across multiple cards, so would it be correct in assuming this is where NVIDIA is at a stand still on the driver development, by not being able to scale the spanned image across SLI? but rather only being able to produce the image in surround mode with out SLI support?
    3. Why are the drivers segregated from past gpu’s like the 200 series, is it to be expected that NVIDIA will no longer be actively supporting new developments in drivers and game support on older hardware now, or is NVIDIA going to unify the drivers again soon?
    4. Not really related but a major pain in the ass, Why has the stuttering problem with fallout 3 with AA not been fixed with recent drivers, as with the last known working drivers 186.18 the stutter is non existent, after numerous bug submissions, and NVIDIA forums threads on the matter NVIDIA still has yet to even acknowledge the problem in their drivers.

  • beazil

    Tom – I am very glad that you are actively trying to improve your communication with your customers and potential customers. This is an area I have noticed your company lacking in so I am very happy to see the effort from you. I am also sorry you are the first to “stick out your neck” on such a sensitive issue. As you are no doubt aware, we customers can be a voracious bunch, so thank you for taking the risk of putting yourself personally on the line here.
    I like many others await your surround drivers eagerly, and have already purchased and installed SLI 470’s from a 275 SLI setup, along with three supported monitors. Are you in any position to comment on the inclusion of opengl support for 3d vision and 3d surround for games? This feature was announced initially when 3d vision was released and somehow it got turned into professional support for quad buffered professional apps, and only on your workstation cards. This was something you used to be able to do with your old 3d solution (drivers for shutter glasses), but now is absent as a feature.
    Any information you can share would be most appreciated.
    Thank you.

  • noname

    don’t forget, you have to buy 20 of theier older offerings x9 to get one gtx480 BAD BUMP or gtx 470 BADBUMP just like the retailers have to BBAADDBUMP!!
    So long & thanks for all the badbumps nVidia. OpenGL4? forget it ‘nvidia is just a software company’ Ha! HP dv2xxx,dv6xxx,dv9xxx. BADBUMP
    I have an idea, how about we take the ‘Dearest Leader’ CEO, force a die-shrink on him on another unproven process, disable a bunch of brain cells, give him a slightly different name, and call him ‘new & improved’?

  • http://blogs.nvidia.com/ntersect/ntersect-authors.html#tp Tom Petersen

    Good point. Next monday try it out for yourself.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/d1883 www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=626716339

    What people don’t understand is, NVIDIA had no plan to release 3 monitor tech into their cards.
    ATI kept it secret (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/22/anandtech-goes-behind-the-scenes-of-atis-rv870-evergreen-gpu/) because they did it right. 3 outputs, on all 5 series generation of cards.
    Then, NVIDIA backtracked, delayed from various issues (low yields, A1, A2 then finally an A3 release) shows us that there were big issues behind the curtain.
    They would’ve needed to add it in, last minute – but because it was an after thought… 2 cards were required, this puts the customer base to single percentage, SLI board owners. 400 series use 250W of power, so you’re also requiring 850W+ to run 3 screens.
    A simple 5770 can do this, with a ~400W PSU and any motherboard with PCI-e 16x.
    NVIDIA delayed the hardware for 8 months and released it, boxes on the shelf say “3d vision surround”, yet – you cannot do this. This is false advertising. Tom says above that there’s notes to say “when supported”, yet plainly on Palit’s boxes – it says “3d vision surround”.
    Because it was an after thought, the delays started with software. ATI’s solution is hardware based, NVIDIA’s is software. Because of this limitation, software has to be coded and ATI only dropped their bomb in October. Fermi was meant to come out in October.
    NVIDIA have had nearly 9 months to get a driver/software working – obviously this is why we never saw true game demoes. Yet, on release EyeFinity was actually workable and now it’s near perfect for a lot of games.
    NVIDIA will have a refresh in the next few months – the driver will come out before hand, 2 – 3 months later a new card will arrive (Oct/Nov) and be B1 revision, this card will most likely kick ass – hopefully.
    Don’t treat your customers like idiots NVIDIA. We (the customers) started your company by buying your hardware… things like this show where the real loyalty lies. PR, websites, etc. Pump out the news, let people want it… delay the card, bring it out and then a main feature (which is a copy of ATI’s) has failed to be delivered, even after NINE MONTHS of waiting……..

  • TroN

    “it’s like deja vu all over again!”
    This whole 3D surround debacle reminds some of us of the lengthy delays in Nvidia providing usable 3D drivers after debut of the 8800GTX series…about 2 years!! This time it is much worse, though…clearly nVidia Marketing made false promises they knew they couldn’t keep because the competition had beaten them to the punch on multi-monitor support. Don’t insult our intelligence with disingenuous statements suggesting engineering delays were somehow unanticipated by corporate insiders.
    If you guys don’t want to lose any more precious formerly loyal customer base to ATI, you all better play that 3D ace in the hole before its shelf life expires, even if that means coughing up a ‘Gamers’ Beta’ version of 3D Surround drivers…and while you’re at it get those 3D Vision drivers for XP done, as half your customer base still run XP systems. Time is running out…

  • samueljmello@gmail.com

    I purchased two 480’s and don’t regret it. I knew it was the bleeding edge and there is always a price to pay with that. Every time I have ever built a system with brand new technology there has been a struggle to get things working just right. And many times new features were released months later after the drivers matured. This is not new practice by any company. I’ve had numerous Voodoo, ATI, and NVidia cards and all have had their issues at launch.
    Last time I checked the boxes my GTX 480’s came in said “NVidia 3d surround ready” with the keyword being “READY”. That doesn’t mean it’s ready now, just that it will be. I knew this going into it because I’m an adult and I actually research the products I buy instead of just going to NewEgg like a noob and picking out the most expensive products hoping that they will work like magic.
    I’m glad that NVidia officially made this post as I’ve experienced company’s saying nothing at all and that is much worse. I have 4×21″ monitors and I certainly plan to use the surround feature when it’s available, but I’m not going to cry about being misinformed or that NVidia advertised features not available. NVidia told everyone that the feature wouldn’t be ready until the 256 release and if you didn’t know that it’s your own fault.
    After all, it’s about video cards. If you really are that concerned about it you need help. There are dozens of other products out there you can purchase that will fill any needs you might have professionally. Last time I checked gaming across 3 monitors wasn’t a “need”, it was a “want”. So, return your cards if you are unhappy and go to ATI. Have fun purchasing 3 monitors that use display port or spending an extra $150 on a decent active display-port to DVI adapter. I’m sure you’ll be just as upset with them for “False advertising” when you figure that out.

  • Delphium

    Hi Tom, again many thanks for the updates.
    I would just like to aid you with your goal of “actively trying to improve our communications with our fans.”.
    Might I suggest and would you deem it feasable, that an Nvidia rep such as your self or others, look at comunicating with your fan base in the WSGF (wide screen gaming forums)?
    ( http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/ )
    WSGF has done a lot of work to provide and research many methods of assisting users with not just wide screen displays, but also multi monitor display setups.
    As such you and your colleages will find a good user base with a great ammount of experience who use this kind of technology already and would prove to be a valuable resource for providing feedback to your selfs with regards to the surround technology.
    I beleive this could prove adventagus for both Nvidia and its users, as the red team have already discovered this resource, and it would be a shame for Nvidia to miss out on this opotunity of having a dedicated resource place for providing feedback on multi monitors display systems.
    If this opotunity is something you feel that Nvidia would like to take up, then please by all means feel free to contact myself for which I can put you in touch with Ibrin the founder of this site (or please contact him directly) if you would like to get accounts setup.
    Personally I run a gtx285 system, and like many others, egarly await the new drivers to determine the next upgrade decision.
    I look forward to your response.
    Many thanks
    Delphium.

  • http://blogs.nvidia.com/ntersect/ntersect-authors.html#tp Thomas Petersen

    on #2 You are correct on all fronts. Surround will initially require some user intervention to optimize performance for when users want to game on a single display. Also Surround will only work on homogeneous resolution screens.
    on #3 Yes, 5/24 will have the first round of game improvements.

  • http://blogs.nvidia.com/ntersect/ntersect-authors.html#tp Thomas Petersen

    Thanks for your comment. I am a big fan of WSGF. As a matter of fact that is the first place I go when I am looking for tricks of the trade to get good behavior from some of the existing games.
    Till now though we have not had the bandwidth to actively participate in that forum…but with the launch of the surround driver coming soon it does seems like a worthwhile effort. Ill look into it.

  • http://blogs.nvidia.com/ntersect/ntersect-authors.html#tp Thomas Petersen

    I responded to a different post on the same topic…but so you don;t miss it – we are releasing both 3D Vision Surround and Surround in the same driver at the end of June.

  • PK

    your box also says SLI ready. What does that mean to the customer that doesn’t know any better. There’s a conflict in terms that leads to confusion. Hence, “false advertising”. They played the surround theme from day one to get people to wait–we won’t be disappointed they said. Meantime, reviews, previews and boxes say its supposed to work this way and it should. They’ll back pedal only pointing at boxed that reflect what it should (now) say versus what many of already own.
    Nvidia did this to steal people from going ATI because they were losing their market. Now they can’t get the drivers ready when promised adds to suspicions. Not that it wasn’t a promise to begin with because they implied drivers would follow or be included at launch.
    Liars!
    and chizow, I don’t think any user group is more important than others. You obviously like grasping for anything. And for the last time, the drivers were set to be released around April near launch. That is a problem. I don’t care if you don’t see it or if you think it’s just part of life. Say what you mean, and mean what you say is a philosophy NV should adopt. And when you fail, fall on your sword an apologize. Lets not forget the pre-launch fiasco w/bs fake cards they touted to the media. They were behind and they forced things to pull in a market that wasn’t there’s for the taking.
    They were playing catchup at all costs.
    IMO you’re wrong on all counts because in the end, you excuse every level of deception. Returning cards isn’t the answer. Nvidia need to prevent the BS so people don’t have to resort to crap like that. And you know many wont return their cards because of the hassle, and restocking fees. I don’t agree with you…don’t take it personal.

  • PK

    You either work for NV or you hate to lose debates. WTF is your point about user groups? I don’t think any user group is more important than others. And returning cards isn’t the answer either. Not when the hassle or probable fee’s associated with returns turns ones stomach. It’s not worth it at this point and that’s the point I’m making. Nvidia is now trying to keep people from returning their cards by releasing this timely update. Your card doesn’t work now but it will…just wait.
    You’re so hooked on the April date for driver release. The point again was that they said drivers would be delivered if not launched around the time of launch. The release date of the cards is irrelevant. They promised functionality near launch w/drivers which was near and around APRIL. You just like to argue moot points. The fact that cards RIGHT NOW still don’t work is a BIG problem. But you’re blind to this issue.
    You act like this is just the cost of doing business–no biggy. They’re late so what. Your immune to deception tactics–good 4 u.
    My leap of faith was in Nvidia’s promise to consumers that their product BY NOW would work as touted from day freaking one. SIMPLE SH!T man! When something you value falls short in your life, I hope you can adopt the same BS philosophy your trying to gag people with here.
    You must also agree with nvidia fake card to media spectacle too. If they didn’t have such a crappy history with fermi, maybe people wouldn’t be so mad. They rushed this–u can’t deny that. They should say what they mean and mean what they say. Not say whatever the hell you need to in order to steal customers–and that’s what they did.
    One other thing that adds to confusion about “ready” on their boxes. Like mine, SLI ready is right underneath NV3d surround ready. What is the consumer to think when reading this? If there’s consistency in terms, there will be no confusion. This IS confusion and at worst, deception.
    Go on with your fantasy that they did things right and they can do no wrong. There’s a term for this and you fit that bill perfectly.
    What they are doing is ethically and morally wrong and that was the premise of my posts, not the intricates of percentages and other little details you propose as relevant.
    If I were you, I’d consider buying stock in NVIDIA right now.

  • http://blogs.nvidia.com/ntersect/ntersect-authors.html#tp Tom Petersen

    See here for forum thread if interested:
    ForceWare 256.x, Where is 256 driver release..?
    http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=167337
    Nvidia 3D Surround Release Date?
    http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=161930

  • chizow

    The point about user groups is to directly address and refute your claims that your needs and opinions are somehow more important than the overwhelming majority in an attempt to show just how myopic and egocentric your point of view was. I guess it failed. Not surprised in the least given you’re still going on about how Nvidia should’ve changed their entire launch strategy to meet your needs.
    If you don’t want to feel like you’re in a position where you’ve been deceived, do more research? Let me ask you, do you take the same approach when buying a car? A house? A kitchen range? If you don’t want to be cheated or deceived, do your due diligence, its really that simple.
    I brought up points and timelines to illustrate the fact it was impossible to buy these cards under the impression the feature was ready at launch as nearly every review and Nvidia’s own guidance (further reiterated by Tom Petersen) clearly stated the drivers were NOT ready at launch and would not be until R256.
    At that point you could buy with the expectation they would be ready when available, or you could wait. If you bought with the expectation they would be ready, then you obviously expected too much and didn’t do enough research on the topic. If you feel you were deceived, you should pursue refund. Any shipping fee or restocking fee can just be chalked up to a lesson learned, caveat emptor and the fear of buyer’s remorse applied to any future purchases, but again, if you argue nearly as vociferously as you have here about false advertising, they’ll probably waive the restocking fee just to get you off the line.
    As for your comments about working for Nvidia and hating to lose an argument, over time I’ve found one of the best signs you’ve won the argument is when the accusations of employment or ad hominem attacks start up, as you’ve demonstrated here. ;)

  • http://blogs.nvidia.com/ntersect/ntersect-authors.html#tp Tom Petersen

    Thanks for your comments Fanboy4Life.
    on #1/2 – All cards particiapate in the rendering process.
    on #3 – On a very regular release schedule we do supply unified drivers on nv.com. We expect to continue this policy going forward. Ocassionally (like now), we do provide specific drivers for specific purposes on some subset of GPUs. The idea is that we can get a quality driver out sooner by restricting the use (and hence QA). These branches are almost always transient.
    on #4 can we get an address from you? We would like to get some help on debug. Please just EMAIL me (tpetersen@nvidia.com) with your contact and the guys working onthis issue will contact you. We did do some fixes on this last year and most users report it fixed. So get us you contact and we will take a look.

  • chizow

    @ PK,
    Its obvious you do think your needs outweigh those of others, thankfully Nvidia does not feel the same way. How can I excuse any level of deception when I was never deceived to begin with? They very clearly stated the feature was not ready. If this feature was the most important feature to any individual, don’t you think it would fall on the buyer to make sure the feature was ready on the cards before they bought them? Its just amazing to me that you’re trying to claim deceit when any misunderstanding is a result of your own lack of research on the matter prior to buying.

  • NVIDIA FanBoy4Life

    Thank you very much for clarifying Mr.Petersen, I appreciate the timely response and the much needed aid with Fallout 3, e-mail sent.

  • PK

    you know, you don’t read anything. That comment is totally opinion based on zero fact. My needs are NO different than anyone else’s. WE ARE ALL in the same boat with the driver issue. Your the only one with no understanding what people are concerned about because you are so happy Tom replied to you….right? You like to throw stones? Does it make you feel good?
    There’s a problem here. It’s not mine, it is everyone’s problem who cant do what their cards were designed to “BY NOW”. I did more research that you I suspect because I seem to know what isn’t here via promises and what is. You’re a nasty person if you keep thinking you can babble your way into intelligent debates with your blind support for NV.

  • PK

    @ Chizo. (my last commentary to you because it’s clear your not interested in finding one valid reason why consumers could be upset. You have a reason for everything but mostly “the consumer didn’t research”. Very nice!
    Below is a response your last comment directed at me.
    WHEN was that driver to be released Chiz (regarding your third paragraph)? April right? Sometime around launch. Maybe not with the card–who cares. Do u not get it? Those consumers who purchased these cards DID do research. What is wrong with you? We all expected to have a card that works as described or should have “by now”. Where was JUNE in all the literature Chiz?
    Why do you think you’re above everyone here who purchased cards and has a problem with the way things have gone. You cite “return the card” or you attempt to belittle people based on some basis that extra research, if had been performed would have deferred those customers from making this purchase.
    You got this grandiose, narcissistic vibe about you as evidenced by your recommendations and willingness to counsel people on their current and future purchases aimed at those that feel they got duped—it’s nauseating brother.
    Furthermore, your commentaries are never written like they are responding to someone. It’s like you answer questions never asked. You write to appeal to the likes of Tom. Most times, it’s like you’re babbling anyway, citing mathematical statistic when the premise of my problem is simple, simple, simple. Example u said “If you don’t want to be in a position where you’ve been deceived, do more research”. What the hell kind of message are you sending here? Every person here had performed some level of research (many of us MORE THAN YOU obviously) therefore there’s a STRONG inkling of deception running about. That’s how it works you know. You learn things by reading, watching, researching and then, an informed purchase is made or not made. Nvidia made things palatable to jump on this purchase with promised of timely driver releases with of course all those NEW FEATURES we’re going to get!!!! According to you, nobody exercised this in their purchase. The only thing you got is the benefit of hind site and you’re acting like you knew all along.
    Making blanket statements, then reiterating them when they’re not even applicable shows an obvious disconnect here. You’re not willing to see anything with clear glasses. Maybe if Tom would say this was a problem they could of prevented and therefore we (nv) understand why people are angry. Maybe then you’ll change your thoughts.
    Lastly, I made the statement about you working for NVidia to refrain from telling you to get a room. (wink) You’ve overcome each and every objection with bogus feedback. All your feedback is analogy driven, unrelated to the true facts of the premise of discontent amongst NVidia customers. In my line of work, we would say your delusional.
    To be clear on this front because you seem to think we/I can benefit from your babbling. You expect research to cancel-out all suspicions of deception practices concerning the pre-launch fiasco (fake card) and similar driver problems (schedule problems and working tech confusions) we’re having now. No amount of research would give NVidia a clear benefit of doubt because they were never CLEAR to begin with.
    Finally, I’m done with you because your points have not been applicable in a while. Take care brother, God Bless!

  • Michelle

    I’ve watched you try and clutter this blog with BS Chizow. You seem to think NVIDIA is right all the time. PK is showing what appears to factual. You, you seem to have an agenda because I watched u excuse everything that NV has done (some being shady) and putting all the burden on the customer. You might as well call us stupid which I think you really are by targeting a guy who is calling you on things.
    I’m happy with my card but unhappy its hampered by drivers that from everything I read should be working now.
    Give yourself a break already.

  • MikeQ

    Amen, nvidia really is playing us.

  • MikeQ

    THanks for that information.
    I’m sick of being accused of not reading before making my purchases. Nvidia is being sneaky.

  • MikeQ

    again, where do you get your information? We all read the literature before purchasing the cards. What wasn’t clear was driver dates. And today, it’s still not clear.
    I get the point. Those of us who paid for these cards should have an operational card by now. You’re not even giving us consumers the benefit that we can read. JeeZ.

  • blahblah

    Do more research next time. They said they weren’t ready. Return your card if you don’t like it.
    This is sarcasm–it’s been a common dialogue of a few people here who thinks its your fault you have something that doesn’t operate correctly.
    I agree with your post wholeheartedly.

  • Sandy

    Leaked 256 (32 bit only, 64 bit soon to follow) driver supports 3D Vision Surround
    http://www.vortez.co.uk/contentteller/news_story/nvidia_driver_v25676_for_windows_7vista_32_bit_leaked.html

  • blahblah

    Beautiful. Maybe the listened to us.

  • chizow

    No its not based on total opinion, as I’ve already demonstrated, the user base this impacts is so miniscule it would clearly be a mistake to think your needs are the same as anyone else’s as the overwhelming majority of users simply did not expect nor plan to ever use this feature. If you had done your research, you would have seen:
    Powered by NVIDIA SLI Technology
    > NVIDIA Surround technology requires multiple NVIDIA GeForce
    GPUs to drive high definition gaming across three monitors
    > Only GeForce GTX 400 GPUs deliver the graphics horsepower
    needed to power 3x Full HD 1080p 3D displays for an incredible 5760×1080 3D experience (over 750 million pixels/second)
    That information has been readily available since January 17th in the GF100 white paper: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2918/7
    If this feature were rolled out tomorrow, 98+% of people wouldn’t care simply because they do NOT have the necessary hardware to take advantage of it. Sure it opens the opportunity for them to then buy the hardware and make use of the feature, but this would be a case of buying the carriage after buying the horse and one you might not be familiar with.

  • chizow

    @PK and anyone asking about where I’m getting my data,
    Again, as I said in one of my earlier posts its hard to empathize with anyone who claims they purchased something solely for a specific feature but failed to make sure said product was able to meet their expectations prior to buying. This is a clear case of buyer’s remorse as a result of user error or neglecting due diligence.
    Here is the timeline with the facts and supporting links where applicable:
    Jan 7th – CES shows demos of Nvidia Surround on GT200 hardware, expected to be released at a future date. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2916/3
    Jan 17th-18th – GF100 tech previews that further detail 3D Vision Surround. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2918/7
    March 2nd-6th – CeBit shows more demos of Nvidia 3D Vision Surround on both GT200 and GF100 hardware, expected to be released at a future date. http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/nvidia-3d-vision-surround-eyes-on-triple-the-fun/
    Prior to launch, you will not find any official guidance on when the feature and drivers were launched because Nvidia simply did not make any such promises. The *expectation* from outside observers is that they would launch with GTX 400 series, and as Tom Petersen states in this blog, that was their initial goal but that schedule obviously slipped. So instead of holding up the launch for a value-add feature, they went ahead and launched the card with the promise the drivers would follow when ready. I don’t see how anyone can fault the logic of their decision here, the alternative being delay the launch of the cards even longer?
    March 26th – Pax East and NDA launch reviews. Clearly stated that the feature and drivers are NOT ready. 3D Vision Surround page updated to state the feature is “Scheduled for April”. This is the first mention of any time frame and clearly AFTER the official launch.
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/nvidia-s-geforce-gtx-480-and-gtx-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/4
    http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=266860
    This time period of nearly 2 weeks between the simultaneous launch announcement the 256 drivers were not ready on March 26th and were “Scheduled for April” is significant because it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for you to buy the cards with the expectation 3D Vision Surround is ready out-of-the-box if you had simply done some research on the topic. I would certainly expect anyone who claims this was the sole feature and reason they bought the cards to have clearly understood the feature was not ready and any release date would certainly be tentative in nature.
    April 7th – First GTX 470/480 cards available in the US at Newegg.
    April 30th – Still no 256 drivers, so obviously “Scheduled for April” slipped to at least May.
    May 1st – Obviously the feature didn’t make April….3DVS page changed to “Summer 2010″.
    May 14th – This blog post clearly defining launch dates with admissions from Nvidia’s Tom Petersen that they are late on the driver because it simply wasn’t ready. Sounds like an honest enough mea culpa and certainly
    So there it is, I’m not saying you don’t have a right to be disappointed, I’m just saying all this rhetoric and angst about deceit, lies, false advertising etc. is clearly unfounded and really the result of a lack of research on the part of the buyer.
    Nvidia was late on their driver, they admitted to it, but as a consumer it is YOUR responsibility to do the necessary research into whether a product suits YOUR needs. If you find that’s not the case, you have the right to return the cards etc. etc. and pursue refund.

  • chizow

    Addressed more thoroughly with timelines in an earlier post, but you may have read the wrong literature:
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2977/nvidia-s-geforce-gtx-480-and-gtx-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/4
    “Neither 3DVision Surround nor NVIDIA surround are available in the drivers sampled to us for this review. NVIDIA tells us that these features will be available in their release 256 drivers due in April. There hasn’t been any guidance on when in April these drivers will be released, so at this point it’s anyone’s guess whether they’ll arrive in time for the GTX 400 series retail launch.”
    And the 3DVS page at the time clearly stated the feature required the R256 drivers that were scheduled to be released in April.
    I’ve never claimed Nvidia made any timeline clear about this feature, quite the opposite actually, they never claimed a timeline, which is my point that it would have been impossible for anyone to buy these cards expecting this feature to be ready out of the box. Those of us who paid for these cards do have an operational card by now, we just don’t have a feature that was clearly stated would not be released until a later date.

  • chizow

    Yep, also confirmed 3D Vision Surround is working in those drivers, but still buggy in some games. Sounds like the driver delay was needed and will be well spent working out the remaining bugs. If you can’t wait for official release go for it, just don’t complain about bugs…..
    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1520653

  • PK

    see, u point a time-line everyone lived through. Take your comment, cut it in half, focus on failed driver release, minus your bias and what do have? A failure to follow through on time-line.
    April was the timeline, or so thereafter that people made decisions to buy. We had enough info at that time and we believe NV. Your asking people to be foresee the future now with the benefit on hind site in your corner. You’re one BIASED individual.
    Based on the info NV presented, it was in our interest to buy. If we had the info they have for us now, at the POS, then people would have been equipped with ALL the info. There was no amount of effing research that would have told this story, hence the ball in NV’s court to fix it. You are sorry person for trying retell a worthless point.

  • MikeQ

    you really have your head in the water. It’s the portion that made customer buy. April release. What the hell do you prove by rehashing a time line that says what we know. That April time frame is why I purchased the card. Not June, not May….April. They knew what they were doing when they predicted that April date.
    What’s wrong with you?

  • chizow

    Yes the timeline clearly points out no one who bought these cards just for this feature could possibly have been deceived with any promise or guarantee 3D Vision Surround was working out of the box, which again, directly refutes your point.
    The driver is late, Nvidia has said as much and taken responsibility for it. Now its up to you whether you want to wait for the drivers or return your cards, either way you could NOT have been deceived into thinking you didn’t get what you paid for, because you got exactly what you paid for with the expectation the drivers would come when ready.
    Oh, and since you can’t seem to wait for the drivers that you feel entitled to, feel free to use the leaked ones, confirmed 3D Vision Surround works, but of course, its buggy. Sounds like the extra time Nvidia has taken for the drivers was necessary and well spent:
    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1520653
    Fully expect to see a massive post by PK complaining about buggy 3DVS drivers next crying about how he didn’t get what he paid for……

  • chizow

    You may have purchased the cards for the feature, I surely did not, what’s wrong with YOU and why are you assuming its the feature that made people buy when it requires 2xGPUs, 3xmonitors and a 3D kit?
    Again, if this feature is what made you buy, maybe you should’ve *WAITED* to buy either the cards or the additional monitors until *AFTER* the feature was released with the drivers. Instead of buying first, realizing you should’ve did a bit of reading first, and then crying about it.
    Just a suggestion. :)

  • Pk

    No. Nothing more here. Your the only one here that points to the customer as the problem. It’s plenty apparent that you could see no wrong with anything. You cloud your posts with links, stats and timelines that in the end mean nada and only make u look desperate. I’ll try the drivers yeah but we all know why they put them out now. I have a problem with June not today’s beta. Nice try tryin to deflect.

  • chizow

    Yes well-formulated arguments and informed opinions are typically accompanied with solid research, facts, data, references, statistics, evidence, links etc, if anything they’ve brought clarity to an issue you’ve tried to cloud with your own expectations and misunderstandings. Maybe if you take a bit more care in the future before buying you can minimize the risk of being deceived? :)
    I’ve never said the customer is completely at fault, especially given Nvidia has admitted their own fault, I simply pointed out the obvious that some of the burden lies with the customer to make sure they get what they think they’re getting. This goes for anything, but especially high-end, high-priced, bleeding-edge technology like graphics cards and consumer electronics.

  • Angelica

    I’ve met people lime you chiz. I appluad your persitence but not your intentions. You sound like smart person grasping for straws dead set on proving nothing. Too bad. If you were really right you’d be dangerous.
    Pk. I also admire your persistence. However it was realized a whe ago that chizow was too biased.
    Nvidia was wrong. Bordering false advertising and deception at times. Give it a rest otherwise. Both of u.

  • MikeQ

    I’m willing to bet this discussion sparked a leak.

  • DonaldMLT

    So your happy because you use all of the card’s features.
    Everyone one else, even if that accounts for less than 10% of consumer base are still justified in their disappointment. It’s perfectly natural to buy products based on information distributed by the manufacturer in terms a future updates and functionality. Stocks work in similar fashion AMF. In this case, it seemed pretty obvious that Nvidia had to assert themselves by reassuring potential customers that their product will work as advertised. However, they failed to come through for one reason or another…and that’s damn important.
    We’re not in a court room so regardless of the “in your face” linkages, white-papers and personal opinions, Nvidia couldn’t ignore the confusion they so apparently created as a result of their actions or in-actions. Seriously, you debate like your in a court room (and I’ve been there plenty) defending the manufacturer’s rights.
    Also, there’s a leak for a reason by the way, I hope you don’t think that’s just coincidence.
    Finally, regardless of your now personal vestment into this blog, you should probably stop defending a practice that has obviously offended a loyal fan base of nvidia users. Right or wrong, these consumer don’t deserve to be deceived, intentionally or not. Loyalty goes a long way brother.

  • idontknow

    SLI ready means what then. My box says SLI ready. How do I read that?

  • MikeQ

    Are you referring to the 3dvision “ready” wording?
    It’s been argued here. Well at least brought up. It certainly creates confusion because as you know SLI is a working technology. Where 3dvision/surround is not, not officially. There is some leaked drivers but i suspect that might be a response to the anger of a June release.

  • chizow

    Again, no where have I claimed Nvidia is not at fault, they’ve admitted their fault by issuing this blog and further in comments directly from Tom Petersen acknowledging their shortcomings. Also, no where have I claimed the customer does not have the right to be disappointed about statements and promises made, but certainly you would agree Nvidia can’t be held to expectations or statements they never made right?
    My factual replies and links were in response to a few individuals claiming *I* was making up BS along with persistent claims Nvidia was somehow deceptive or lying in comments they previously made about the feature. Again, clearly this is not the case as a simple evidentiary quote or link from Nvidia stating “The feature will be ready when you buy this card” would have shut this down long ago. Except no such link will be found because no such comment was made.
    And nothing I’ve written here is personal, unlike comments made by others, if anything they’re personal only in that someone might benefit from this learning experience in the future and know better than to let themselves fall into a similar position of feeling deceived.

  • chizow

    Hi Angelica,
    I’m sure I’ve met people like you as well, charmed, no doubt….
    My intentions are simple, to detail the facts of the situation and clear any misunderstandings so that people like Tom Petersen and his staff at Nvidia don’t have to waste any time addressing them and instead, focus on getting our drivers out. :)
    No where have I said Nvidia wasn’t wrong, they’ve admitted they’re late on the driver as this entire blog and comments by Tom Petersen serve as a mea culpa. But that doesn’t mean they’re guilty of lying or deceiving their customers as a few individuals repeatedly accuse them of by selling a card that wasn’t capable of all that it was advertised to do.
    Any deception or confusion could only stem from insufficient research on the part of the customer, its really that simple, I’ve detailed exactly how any reasonable individual would only come to this conclusion by spelling it out in a timeline back by facts, links, quotes etc.
    So for those that aren’t satisfied with Nvidia’s admission of fault and apology, what are they suggesting as a solution? What would they have done differently? What do they think Nvidia should have done differently? I personally completely agree with their decision to go ahead and launch the cards first with the expectation the drivers to unlock this singular feature would come at a later point, when ready. Wouldn’t you?

  • Kyle

    Can’t believe I missed all this. I read every post and despite all the arguments that give Nvidia credit (few, very few), I’m thinking (and I don’t use SLI or any feature sets), Nvidia is a calculating group of selfish money makers. Chiz man, you should litigate for Nvidia because in your mind, the consumers are the idiots for setting higher expectations from a company that portrays themselves as innovators. A company makes bold promises with a time-line that regardless of what you can ever say was used to help consumers decide on what to buy. Even if it’s less than 5% that use a particular function. It DOESN’T MATTER. Every consumer here that feels betrayed is right to feel that way. And though you may think there’s no grounds for a law suit, the fact that people talk suits should be listened to because that usually comes from the broken heart of a customer. No company can afford to have a lot of hurt customers, no company. It comes back to haunt them, one way or another.
    So, with all you fact finding stunts, the only fact I’ve seen you beat to death is your opinion about research and this time-line. I read that April encompassed a couple of things. A launch and a driver release. Doesn’t matter which comes first because the mindset of those who considered this product for purchase were looking to Nvidia to come through with the hardware by MAY. Now it looks like we won’t see anything until July. (end of June is like pricing something at $1.99 to make it look better).
    Take a look at the leaked beta and check out the dates. Interesting at best.
    Seems like 2 alpha males/females found their way into a site with two distinctly different theories on this blog. Always makes for good popcorn fun. However, when you’re wrong, and Chiz, your all about NV, not the customer, YOU ARE WRONG. The customer is always right. People are angry, hurt, and upset. Serious feeling shouldn’t be dismissed based on a bombardment of garbage you can produce from the internet that from what I have seen, reaffirms the problem with the driver release. And that’s the premise of customers difficulties.
    Using these features or not, nvidia could have taken a more honest route with this launch. However, all they’ve done is appeal to the hardcore nvidia owner that will thanks them for breadcrumbs.
    You don’t like to lose but you are the minority here. Even if you were right, it probably was best not to piss on customers that felt wronged. That’s a shitty thing to do.
    Like I said, glad I found this because I plan to link it to support one or the other sides of this coin. Take a guess which side I support.
    Later all!!!

  • chizow

    Again, one of the first points I made was to clearly define the user-groups impacted by this feature and these drivers. I’m not sure how you can claim I’m in the minority when its plainly obvious 98+% of users do not have the prerequisite hardware to take advantage of this feature, which requires SLI + 3 monitors.
    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
    Surely you aren’t claiming Nvidia did wrong by the *MAJORITY* of their customers by releasing a card that was already delayed, or are you saying they should’ve delayed the launch another 2 months for that <2% of users that were expecting this feature to be ready out of the box? Perhaps you have a better suggestion with how you think Nvidia should've approached this? Maybe exclude mention of the feature altogether, then launch it when ready, only to deal with the wrath of all the ex-fanboys claiming they were lied to by Nvidia by not mentioning it, so instead they went with ATI and EyeFinity?
    As for the customer always being right, that's only within reason and not an absolute guideline, here's an interesting read for you: http://positivesharing.com/2006/07/why-the-customer-is-always-right-results-in-bad-customer-service/
    I’ve already detailed recourse for anyone who felt they were lied or deceived and felt the cards did not deliver what was expected or advertised. Simply return the cards for refund. The customer in that case, would be right and they would get their money back, case closed.

  • chizow

    Hi Michelle,
    Please point out what BS you’re referring to cluttering this blog. My agenda is to simply set the record straight with facts, stats, links, quotes, timelines etc. and I think I’ve clearly done that.
    I’m not calling anyone stupid, I’m simply stating anyone using the “I spent $2500 on hardware expecting this to work” card would apply some care and do some research before plunking down that $2500. Wouldn’t you? If not, don’t you think the customer should shoulder some of the blame?

  • chizow

    html tags….
    Surely you aren’t claiming Nvidia did wrong by the *MAJORITY* of their customers by releasing a card that was already delayed, or are you saying they should’ve delayed the launch another 2 months for that 2% of users that were expecting this feature to be ready out of the box? Perhaps you have a better suggestion with how you think Nvidia should’ve approached this? Maybe exclude mention of the feature altogether, then launch it when ready, only to deal with the wrath of all the ex-fanboys claiming they were lied to by Nvidia by not mentioning it, so instead they went with ATI and EyeFinity?
    As for the customer always being right, that’s only within reason and not an absolute guideline, here’s an interesting read for you:
    http://positivesharing.com/2006/07/why-the-customer-is-always-right-results-in-bad-customer-service/

  • Kyle

    in haste you’ll hurt yourself Chiz man.
    I’ve made my point to you because you obviously are misguided. Just look at how you handled my response. …and how fast OMG. Your on it. You’re afraid to have comments linger over yours. That’s a sickness man. Too bad, you write intelligently.
    Thank you for the laugh, I’ll remember this.

  • chizow

    Np Kyle, glad to clear up any confusion that might have misguided you in your conclusions. As for me being afraid of having comments linger over mine? If you directly address someone, I think it’d be rude not reply in kind, wouldn’t you? Its not a sickness any more than a common courtesy. As for the speed in which I replied lol, I only have the Copy function to thank for that. :)
    Similarly, thanks for the laughs about the customer always being right, I always remember those. ;)

  • Diceman

    again, stfu you stupid emo bitch.
    btw, i wouldn’t just say it to your face, i’d grab you by the neck and make you kiss the ground like the bitch you are.

  • SiliconDoc

    Oh really ? This is not eyefinity where special dongles-100$ +adapters, a set of 4 $60 dollar adapters, and non existant displayport screens are required, from the company who doesn’t care about the end user nor it’s own bottom line.
    This is NVIDIA for the masses !
    ” Works with all standard monitor connectors, without requiring
    special dongles. ”
    — That’s ALL standard monitors – so any 3 with an overlapping resolution set will do. They’re $10 dollars here at the Goodwill all year long. That’s $30. This also runs on GTX200. So, add your second card for $200.
    $230.
    That is a REALISTIC PRICE for anyone that already owns a GTX200 series.
    Thanks for playing, but NVIDIA has won the game, and ati has lost again, to the “rich brats” as you put it, their own base in this case ( no actually ati’s base is a bunch of penny pinching scrooges who supposedly save their 5 bucks on a videocard ).

  • Kyle

    Likewise.
    Too bad people are laughing at you or you’d be justified in having a good time too. But you’re not (justified) and they are (laughing) at you. I’ve seen many comments pretty much telling you to stop arguing. However, you obviously think too highly of yourself to get those messages.
    And I don’t have to saturate my replies with BS links to support my position. I can think independently free of http. And if I did post a link, it’d damn be applicable and non-redundant.
    Finally, when you grow up, you’ll be able to understand what was meant by customers being right. It wasn’t some frivolous right customers have when making purchases. It’s a mind set practiced in order to keep customers coming back.
    You think in broad strokes, very broad.
    Face it man, you are wrong on this matter. There’s more to life than arguing with person after person. There’s no post count here so it’s okay. Save it for EVGA.
    I’ll be moving on now. I suspect you wont due to your sickness.
    Take care.

  • Kyle

    seriously, u posted the same thing twice? You can just hit send twice around these parts. Are you applying for a position with Nvidia? Trying to get noticed? I responded to your other identical post. My last one btw.
    ανόητο γάιδαρος

  • Delphium

    Thanks for the reply Thomas.
    I am glad you are familure already with WSGF, and would consider it to be a place of interest to you guys as a platform for communications.
    As such, I hope to see you and/or your fellow reps around the forums soon then. :D
    Cheers
    Delphium

  • Paniotas

    Chizow, just to get here to this last page, reading many post by you. You insult everybody with your words.. Sorry my english isn’t that good. I’m greek and this last post catch my eye. Two things that hit me thinking about you and what you say. I also like nvidia very much but don’t like what theyre doing now. I read some of those links and the point I think you keep telling everyone is related to launch information. Everyone looks like they have a problem with no drivers as of now. As I also felt that Nvidia gave everyone the impresion that drivers to make the cards work would come close to that date give or take a week or two.
    I notice how you make yourself as god like to people here. Then you laugh at them trying to get last word…always you do this. Always you do this and I don’t like the way you treat people. I firest read your speak to Tom and give so much credit to nvidia. You don’t at least try to agree with anybody who has tried to tell you what they feel. Then you get angry, and make lots of words and try to belittle them. This kyle say you post more than one time same thing. I think he is right about you. Maybe you like working for Nvidia yes? You hurt people here. Lot of people here you say things bad with your words.
    My story is this. Nvidia did give a time line in the sence they talked about releasing drivers in April. They tell reviews same thing yes? Never tell them to say no to daytes.
    So i think its good idea to buy because nvidia says theywill make there cards work very close time to release. That’s what i see people saying. But you make them look like thye have no points and your points are the only valuable.
    Kyle call you stupid butt. that’s funny. I think he mught be right. sorry to say to you but i think you need to be deserving. I wish I can right like you but i dont want to be you. You are a meen person and don’t belong talking to people like you do.
    Nvidia: please take notice here. People are mad about dirvers. Simple.

  • Christian

    That’s some pretty offensive stuff. Why would you think anyone here would want to read this filth? That was uncalled for.

  • Rod

    Hi David, making your rounds insulting people again? Looking to get banned here too I take it. Way to go guy!

  • Mod

    whoa! This because of a blog? Tom Peterson’s blog at that. Anger management should be first priority.
    Why isn’t Tom deleting this comment like the last one by this guy? Real crappy!

  • David

    Well, I, like an idiot, didn’t do my research. I listened to a know-it-all “richard” from TigerDirect that steered me towards the three 470GTX cards when he saw I was building a new machine. I saw the write-up in reference to it supporting gaming across 3 monitors and I was sold………..and taken for bad at the same time by both TigerDirect and Nvidia. So, now I wait for my reach around after takin it up the rear………..TWICE! Would Nvidia be so kind as to provide us with at least the beta drivers for the surround technology? I’m sure they may crash a bit but at least I could see this surround technology in action a bit.

  • Breadloaf

    I am running the 257.21 Drivers on my system – 2×480 GTX cards and 3x 3D monitors that have cost £2000 before you even start to take the PC into account!! There is still no 3D support from what I can tell and all the Nvidia pages still suggest that the drivers will support 3D Vision surround from version 256 and above example : http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/3D_Vision_Surround_Technology_uk.html
    What gives here Nvidia ?
    I have also e-mailed Adam Foat (twice) about these issues as I met him at the Scan launch event, I am disgusted with Nvidia and Adam as he has not even bothered to reply to my e-mails. I have been a customer of Nvidia since the start (original Geforce) I have many graphics cards including a Quad SLi 7950’s system that I spend a fortune on before it went obsolete just 4 or 5 months later. I have bought pretty much every high end card Nvidia have released but at this rate it looks like the 480’s will be the last cards I purchased from Nvidia.

  • http://chilearez.org carajillo

    Hi tom
    I`m from Mexico so escuse my bad english
    fist
    You said, we could see nvidia surround whit a single GX295.
    And now in the specification on your web site them off this specification, setting aside gtx295.
    So, nvidia surround can work whit a single GTX295?
    And nvidia 3d surround can work whit a single GTX295? if it,s yes how?, because my third port (HDMI) on my gpu no recoize a syncMaster 2233RZ whit 120HZ.
    TX a lot for your time

  • Delphium

    Greetins Thomas, I am currently wondering what Nvidias stance on this at present?
    We at WSGF are egarly awaiting your arrival, and will be pleased to see some attendence by Nvidia.
    Is this somehting Nvidia would still consider doing do you know, now that the surround drivers are due for release any day now?
    Cheers
    Delphium

  • Breadloaf

    Almost 10 days later and no reply to my post ? great work Nvidia……