Jen-Hsun On GeForce GTX 970

Hey everyone,

Some of you are disappointed that we didn’t clearly describe the segmented memory of GeForce GTX 970 when we launched it. I can see why, so let me address it.

We invented a new memory architecture in Maxwell. This new capability was created so that reduced-configurations of Maxwell can have a larger framebuffer – i.e., so that GTX 970 is not limited to 3GB, and can have an additional 1GB.

GTX 970 is a 4GB card. However, the upper 512MB of the additional 1GB is segmented and has reduced bandwidth. This is a good design because we were able to add an additional 1GB for GTX 970 and our software engineers can keep less frequently used data in the 512MB segment.

Unfortunately, we failed to communicate this internally to our marketing team, and externally to reviewers at launch.

Since then, Jonah Alben, our senior vice president of hardware engineering, provided a technical description of the design, which was captured well by several editors. Here’s one example from The Tech Report.

Instead of being excited that we invented a way to increase memory of the GTX 970 from 3GB to 4GB, some were disappointed that we didn’t better describe the segmented nature of the architecture for that last 1GB of memory.

This is understandable. But, let me be clear: Our only intention was to create the best GPU for you. We wanted GTX 970 to have 4GB of memory, as games are using more memory than ever.

The 4GB of memory on GTX 970 is used and useful to achieve the performance you are enjoying. And as ever, our engineers will continue to enhance game performance that you can regularly download using GeForce Experience.

This new feature of Maxwell should have been clearly detailed from the beginning.

We won’t let this happen again. We’ll do a better job next time.

Jen-Hsun

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  • PsychOXRat

    Although this may be a new hardware config with Maxwell, the fact that it /would/ have been a 3GB card with this 1GB extra which half is over 8X slower makes it feel even worse in my opinion as it was just a 3GB wit hthis added on top to compete with AMD

  • So you wanted the 970 to be a 3GB GPU? Why!? Your competitors GPU was 4GB, they even released 8GB models… this just doesn’t make any sense. Bragging on about how the Maxwell architecture is so great doesn’t make me feel any better about the £330 GPU i have in my PC.

  • Doug Adams

    So…… this was not conveyed initially. This means we were deceived…….. so what are you doing about that? $750 of gpus that don’t work as advertised……that makes me a bit upset.

  • Vidikk

    “it’s a feature”
    So we should be grateful for 3GB 400€ GPU in 2015? Please..

  • Dany Rioux

    “Look at me jumping the gun, LOOK AT ME!”

    It was miscommunication between THEIR INTERNAL TEAMS. Can’t you properly understand English?

  • Dany Rioux

    Competitors can barely load their own drivers. Case closed. 😉

    It’s a joke people, calm down. 😉

  • Xepher

    We get it the first time you said this! People aren’t interested on hear the 3.5 + .5 Vram explanation anymore but hear what do you have to say about the lack of ROP’s and L2 Caché.

  • There was no miscommunication between his wallet and the retailer’s listing though.

  • Doug Adams

    Can’t tell if youre joking or serious. No matter what their internal teams did, they lied to the consumer. I hope you’re just trying to be ironic.

  • Doug Adams

    Exactly. Spec lists , reviews……..none of them indicated this…….so the consumer was deceived.

  • gtx970Owner

    I’m sorry, but as an Owner of a GTX970 I feel like that’s crap. This card is only a 4gb card on paper. It’s a 3.5gb card at best due to the slow/unusable 512mb at the top end. Gamers/enthusiasts that buy this card are not caring about how you made the spec sheet work to be marketable/competative. We care about performance. and while this card performs amazingly under that 3.5gb limit, you have let us down as by Saying it’s a normal 4gb card.

    You should have kept it at 3gb or 3.5 and just lowered the price on the 980 to compensate for your inability to make a mid tier 4gb card that performs as expected. This hurts brand identity and trust. (Believe me I work in Marketing.)

    With AMD closing the gaps in performance and mantle and other features becoming more and more powerful, you need to build trust and show value more than ever. This was not how you do that.

    I love my Card within that 3.5gb but above that I am disappointed.

    Your letter feels like a corporate victim mentality and I don’t feel like you care about the misrepresentation.

    2Cents.

  • gusburtz

    So why was this not corrected right after the reviews came out and the the marketing went out? Why did it take a third party to investigate and bring the issue to light? Does Nvidia not look at marketing for its own products? Does Nvidia not read reviews for its own products?

  • LiamHing

    So many self-entitled little b*****s, they deserve the law suit yes. Solely for misleading customers, but they owe you nothing. Most resellers are offering refunds, and if you’re not taking them up on it, then you’re just seeking something directly from Nvidia.

  • Krakn3dfx

    “This feature”

    Wow.

  • jontseng

    Jen-Hsun, thank you for your honesty.

    I find it rather sad how selfish and mean-spirited people can be online. Before Maxwell dropped everyone would have killed for this performance (3GB or 4GB) at that price point – what was the alternative a R290 dust buster at $50 more??

    Occam’s Razor:
    – They made a genuine mistake and miscommunicated. Who hasn’t done make some stupid screwup in their day job? Maybe internet commentators are all perfect.
    – This was a HUGE conspiracy to pull the wool over peoples eyes and drive sales because it was SUCH tight competitor performance and power-wise with the competitors in the red corner. I mean they were being slammed so hard they JUST HAD NOT CHOICE but to lie.

    Just chill guys…

  • Tweley

    Once you point fingers, nothing you say is believable.

  • David F.A. Domínguez

    Yeah, well, I’d be happy if you’d sold the card as 3gb and then I found out that it had 4gb in your segmented memory configuration. The problem is that you sold the card as if it was a full 4gb card, so why would I be happy when I found out that in fact I ended up getting 3.5+0.5?
    This is a scam, plain and simple. Worst thing is, a lot of people are screwed, even if people from the US win the lawsuit people from Argentina for example still get screwed. Thanks Nvidia!

  • 荷兰大母猪

    For me, I don’t care about the specs but some people do~ so~

  • sickbroski

    Keep digging.

  • sickbroski

    It’s a great joke! You should book a tour.

  • gusburtz

    “inventing” a way to give the 970 4GB? We already know from the breakdowns that the 970 features a crippled version of already available technology. If the true intent was to give the market a 4GB card why not follow the standard and just make a card with 4GB fully functional and at full speed?

    Do you think these lies will save you in court, Jen-Hsun?

  • sickbroski

    I see what you did there, “Jon-Tseng”.

  • Krakn3dfx

    I never heard about Nvidia announcing a 3GB GTX970 and then later saying, “Hey, we managed to bump this thing up to 4GB, more value, more value!”

    Can you point me to the article where all of this was announced?

  • sickbroski

    “Believe me I work in Marketing.”

    hmmm

  • Chris

    “Instead of being excited that we invented a way to increase memory of the GTX 970 from 3GB to 4GB, some were disappointed that we didn’t better describe the segmented nature of the architecture for that last 1GB of memory”

    Wow, this is despicable. Yeah, if only you hadn’t lied about the memory’s shortcomings, we all would’ve been gushing with EXCITEMENT to purchase a gimped card.

    Or maybe 4GB of UNHINDERED memory was actually a selling point to your customers, and thus we wouldn’t have purchased the card at all knowing that the memory is gimped.

    What a load of BS, Jen-Hsun. Try again.

    Jen-Hsun
    Jen-Hsun

  • Dany Rioux

    Spec Guy says to Marketing guy: “Tell people to turn left.”
    Marketing Guy heard “Tell people not to turn left”, says: “Turn right.”

    You call that lying? Suit yourself.

    Unless you have PROOF there was intentional lying–not what you think happened–keep it to yourself. Notbody’s interested.

  • Brian

    Most retailers aren’t offering refunds or did they recently change their tune…

  • Kurt Hubley

    >tells people to keep what they think happened to themselves
    >tells everyone what he thinks happened

    Yeah, ok.

  • PinPinner

    “We wanted GTX 970 to have 4GB of memory, as games are using more memory than ever.”
    Sooo why i can’t even play Shadow of Mordor with Ultra HD Textures DLC without running out of memory at 1080p?

  • Brian

    Jen-Hsun not helping customers that felt like they’ve been sold a bill of goods is just bad business. This has tarnished the 900s brand and also the NVIDIA as a whole. Is losing loyal customers worth it just so the company can save a few bucks and not refund anyone?

  • Paul Ankah

    Why does the GTX 970 continue to marketed as a 256bit card, but your admission above it is not.

  • Dany Rioux

    Look, another one having trouble understanding English.

    I’m paraphrasing the text above. Not “hoping what I say aligns with reality”.

    Again, unless you can prove they’re lying, which you can’t, you have to take their words for it. Until then, there’s isn’t much anyone can say on the subject.

  • LiamHing

    It’s basic consumer rights…you got sold something that isn’t what was advertised, you’re eligible for a refund regardless if they’re offering or not. Doesn’t take 5 minutes to contact the retailer, and ask.

  • supersungin

    if nvidia cant maintain the quality of there products,then how can we survive with bad ports ? and please stop advertising ubisoft games,they fail every aspect with the customers trust.

  • yourma2000

    “This new feature”

    You’re convincing no-one.

  • KOBKStreak .

    I have a 970 and play on 1080p and didn’t have any issues. I’ve seen plenty of videos at 4K showing it running fine for a single card.

    I would re-install the drivers or check other hardware units you are using.

  • KOBKStreak .

    You mean with the 980?

    Maybe they should of just sold the expensive 980 and not done a better for value card which is the 970 eh?

  • Kurt Hubley

    I don’t have to prove they’re lying; I can form my own opinions on the matter without consent from you. I’m not commenting on whether or not this was an intentional deception of Nvidia customers because I don’t know that to be fact or false.

    What I’m doing is highlighting your stupidity in saying one thing and doing another. Us educated folks call that hypocrisy. It’s a fantastic trait of fanboys around the world.

    But let me put it to you this way:
    If Nvidia did know that the memory configuration was fundamentally broken and still sold the card as fully functional, they’re liars.

    If Nvidia didn’t know the memory configuration was broken and/or miscommunicated the specifications, then the company is monumentally incompetent.

    Neither should be taken lightly by customers, which is exactly what you’re suggesting.

  • Dragoon

    Please be excite less ram

  • Chris Knepper

    “This is a good design because we were able to add an additional 1GB for GTX 970”

    Right, so how come AMD has no problem putting 4GB on their cards without gimped bandwidth?

    “Unfortunately, we failed to communicate this internally to our marketing team, and externally to reviewers at launch.”

    So you admit to owing something to people who bought the 970.

  • Bernhard Weigand

    So, we sort of sold a 31/2 GB card but officially labelled it 4 Gb…sorry for that, thank you for your money and better luck next time?

  • Dhangri

    “It’s not a bug… it’s a feature.”

  • AMVIDIA

    “we failed to communicate this internally to our marketing team, and externally to reviewers at launch” Cmon seriously?? if consumer didnt found out about this issue they will walk away with the failed communication bs..4 month after launch seriously cmon..

  • S3l33ngrab

    > If Nvidia did know that the memory configuration was fundamentally broken and still sold the card as fully functional, they’re liars.

    This argument only works when you’re talking about a single person, as they have all the information. The different departments of a business are not the same person, and thus have to communicate to attain all information. If, during the communication, a mistake was made and the other person did not receive all information and continues to tell other people about the information they got (and understood!), it’s not lying but a misconception made by the second party, the receiver of the information.

    In the case of NVidia, the one who has the information is the department concerned with the creation of cards and the receiver being the marketing department.

    Yes, they should be blamed for internal miscommunication, but to jump on them to say that they’re the worst for allegedly intentionally lying to their customers is equally wrong.

    Still, the 970 is a high quality card. It can play games 1080@60 consistently. That’s what most people use. Cut them some slack.

  • DarksunG

    en, this isn’t a miscommunication, this is people as buying something that doesn’t work as advertized. It’s nice that you explained it now, but Nvida already has our money. The right thing to do is compensation or allow returns.

  • Orjon Zaganjori

    GTX970 could have had all 4GB like GTX980. They just did not want the cards too be too close in performance.

  • ZMe Ul

    marketing is also in charge of the software team? because GPU-Z that pulls data from the driver (confirmed by TechPowerUP) shows 64 ROPs for the GTX970

  • gahl18

    “We won’t let this happen again. We’ll do a better job next time.”

    you can start by refunding my money on the GTX 970 I bought

  • Kurt Hubley

    The argument works just fine, and if it happens to be wrong, there’s another option that you conveniently ignored.

    But right now you’re arguing that Nvidia, as a company, is not responsible for the employees they hire.

  • Diablo

    “didn’t better describe” ???

    You described NOTHING! You tried to sweep everything under the rug for 4 Months untill the evidence was so clear that denying the problem any longer was no option anymore.

    And how about those missing ROPs and Cache? Are those a “feature” too?

    Time to pay your dues:

    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/02/nvidia-hit-with-class-action-lawsuit-over-graphics-card-ram-issues/

  • RogerThat

    Such arrogance, NO, you sir dont get the right to call this a feature, its a downgrade and you also dont get to say its a mistake and failed communication since its done on purpose, we are not kids so you can fool us with couple of words and an ridiculous apology without any compensation.

    i will not rest until Nvidia bow down and compensate everyone.

  • ImSooSwayze

    “We won’t let this happen again. We’ll do a better job next time.”
    This doesn’t make your problem magically go away.

  • S3l33ngrab

    I didn’t “conveniently ignore” your other proposal as it makes the same statement as mine. The reason as to why I didn’t mention it is because you accuse the whole company of being “monumentally incompetent”. That’s just not the case. You can’t even blame marketing: how should they know what’s the truth if they don’t know how the product works, and frankly don’t need to in order to make advertisements? They are a company. They trust the information they get from their other departments. If the information they get is not entirely clear they can’t do anything about it, they simply don’t know any better.

    I don’t argue that NVidia isn’t responsible for the employees the hire. I simply stated that somewhere someone miscommunicated. What NVidia, as a company, does to prevent such events might be to fire the person (or multiple people) who were in charge for the communication between those departments. Maybe they just have a talk and that’s it. We don’t know.

  • Krakn3dfx

    Sums it up.

  • Clukos
  • jerrystanleylol

    Translation of what Nvidia just said: “guise, pls.”

  • Kurt Hubley

    My suggestion that the company is monumentally incompetent comes from the fact that there isn’t a way to enable the final 500MB on the 970 that doesn’t break the parallelism of the rest of the memory modules if one ROP is disabled (and the 970 will always have one ROP disabled, otherwise it would be a 980). So either the engineering department was told to route 500MB of VRAM through another ROP (which was designed to handle 500MB, not 1GB) in order to sell the card as a 4GB part, or they were stupid enough not to understand how their own design worked and enabled it thinking nothing bad would happen (highly unlikely, but if that’s what happened, they’re incompetent).

    I think you know which way I lean on this, but why I do is because I have an understanding of how the memory configuration of Maxwell is intended to function. Any access to an eight memory module on a 970 will invariably lower the memory bandwidth of the entire card, no matter how infrequently it’s accessed or how little data is stored there. That’s a fact that was true before the card was released and before it was marketed.

  • kroms
  • DriverGTS

    Yes, a “new feature”, a “good design” not included on GTX 980 because decreases the performance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spZJrsssPA0

  • kroms

    LMAO . Very interesting feature ! LOL

    How convenient .

    One very funny video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spZJrsssPA0

  • derderdeinealtefickt

    Wow, and this took so incredibly long? Sad

  • Jon

    Notice how they don’t actually apologize? Nothing but PR blubber here. It’s also interesting that we had to see a class action lawsuit being filed before we got something close to admitting fault. I don’t think I can ever trust them again after this blatant deceit.

  • DriverGTS

    Sad and very disapointing because they doesn´t provide a solution and don´t talk about ROPs and L2 cache problem(less than advertised)

  • zenit

    “This is understandable” just LOL

  • Kittens

    Pretty sure it was actually because they’d get higher yields from the 970 (hence its far lower price) by using chips with faulty L2 partitions, too. Since the cache is so large in GM204, it makes sense that there’d be quite a few chips with bad sectors.

  • Kittens

    Nope, nope nope. It doesn’t matter if it was a genuine mistake or not: it should not have happened. Nvidia is a huge, billion dollar corporation, major mistakes and/or breakdowns in communications that lead to things like this are unacceptable.

    The product was being sold as having a full 256-bit interface, 64 ROPs, 2048KB of L2 and 4GB of full speed memory. This is not the case, and thus consumers didn’t receive the product they paid for. Whilst I agree that some are taking it too far, please do not make excuses for Nvidia.

  • Damage

    Right now nvidia engineers are optimizing the last 500mb. They are doing a damm good job at software level to make use of that 512mb efficiently.

    But what happens when 970 is no longer there priority card and games come out using full 4gb ram?

  • Kittens

    Then it goes the way of Kepler.

  • Jason E Perkins

    They should have sold the 980 at its current price, sold the 970 at its current price, but advertised the 970 differently. If customers had known that the last 1/2 gig on the 970 worked the way it did, they would have been able to make an informed decision.

    As it stood, important information about the 4GB nVidia heavily advertised was left out of their advertisements.

  • Prophet

    I bought card in November , and the seller sad that there is no refund for card that have 4 mounts , and what am I going to do now ? I see you have not even apologized to people , and we all deceived aspect of your advertising . I want to join the suit if you dont wont to fix it, and give me card with your advertising. I pay for it.

  • YohSpiritForce

    Can you at least allow us to get refunds from you then if you’re so sorry?

  • sniperxl

    so why doesn’t the 980 have 4gb instead 3.5gb?like the gtx 970 is a new feature

  • Anon

    I have played 25 hours of SoM with maxed settings, including ultra textures, at 1080p and never ran out of memory with my GTX 970. After some hours of gameplay, the card had a peak of 4008 MB VRAM usage and the game was as smooth as aways. Maybe you are running out of RAM, not VRAM.

  • Chade Fallstar

    I wont be buying an Nvidia GPU next time i upgrade. Everyone else who is disgruntled with Nvidia should do the same. That’s how you show them you wont accept such a nefarious act, don’t buy their products. This obviously has them concerned, otherwise Jen-Hsun wouldn’t have bothered to address it personally. Sadly, this only adds insult to injury.

  • disgruntledmsigtx970

    Take my card back already, I want a refund

  • Chris

    “Instead of being excited that we invented a way to increase memory of the GTX 970 from 3GB to 4GB, some were disappointed that we didn’t better describe the segmented nature of the architecture for that last 1GB of memory”

    are you kidding me? then why advertise it as 4gb?you should have advertised it as “we are “excited”*cough* that we invented a way to increase memory of the GTX 970 from 3GB to 4GB*cough*”

  • impartial

    Nvidia are bastards for holding back Kepler by drivers, but I agree this has gotten way out of hand. The GTX 970 is a 4 GB card and the last 0.512 MB is usable.

  • impartial

    Angry GTX 970 owners are going to kick my butt .

    *puts on flame suit* …

  • Chris

    don’t worry NVidia is hit by a law suit by which they are forced to refund money to their customers who want a refund.

  • Josh

    Too little too late Jen. You are only rehashing what has already come to light.

    My argument is NOT that the 970 is a bad card.. the problem for me is that based on the specs that were given I purchased 3 970’s instead of 2 980’s for my triple monitor SLI rig.

    Now knowing the real specs I should have definitely picked up 2 980’s for my particular setup and resolution (5760×1080) and possibly a 3rd later on down the line. Those 3 970’s are my 13th,14th and 15th gaming GPUs I’ve ever purchased (not including low end models for desktop output only).

    I waited for 3 months after release to hopefully miss the initial driver teething issues and any other issues that may have come about after Maxwell2 launch only to still get burnt. My next set of GPU’s may very well be AMD because of this.

    You have done NOTHING to compensate your customers for YOUR mistake. Sure your company is now involved in a class action suit in the US. I hope those greedy lawyers take what they can. We all know that class action doesn’t benefit the customers but only the lawyers involved.

  • Josh Rip

    It’s NOT just the RAM!!! It also doesn’t have the 64 ROPs or the 2048kb of L2 cache that it claimed. This is #FalseAdvertising …STOP trying to brush this under the rug Nvidia, we’re not going to go away.

  • GTO

    lol I laughed as much as the guy in the video

  • GettCouped

    Jen-Hsun …. I dislike this person.

  • Richard woo

    They knew what was going down they just didn’t want people to know.. for people who was really looking for 4gb of memory and they advertised it as its 4gb but some of its gimped people shouldn’t have purchased the card..

  • JoMan

    Is Steve Jobs the new CEO of NVDA?

  • Keith Stone

    Did you know that NVidia is in here blocking every ones post that the don’t not like what it says?

  • Ghost

    They only admitted their mistake because they got “CAUGHT”

  • Keith Stone

    Really, a 3gb card. Does NVidia really think we are that stupid? They could put 4GB on a 980, but just not the 970. How dumb does someone really have to be to believe that. Does dumb NVidia remember putting 4gb on the 680 cards, but they are so stupid, that they could not put it on a newer, faster and better card? Oh, I forgot. They did. The gtx980. How could that even be done? Better yet. If that was some awesome new design, then why was it not done on the 980’s as well? Is anyone in here stupid enough to try and argue that one? NVidia does not even realize what is going on. They lied on purpose, and will be held to accountable for it. Do as I did, and get your own attorney, as class action law suits only benefit lawyers. Do not sign up for one, and if you have signed on with one of the many already getting involved. Remove your name and get your own lawyer. It is better for you, and it will cost NVidia more in the long run.

  • danglingparticiple

    Just like desktop G-Sync really needs that expensive module while mobile G-Sync doesn’t…. Yeah, right! Jensen… CEO of Spinvidia!

  • Sash

    This statement is an evidence of incapacity. Can’t believe that it’s written by a CEO. If it’s a great new feature you wouldn’t fail to communicate this internally to your marketing team. Also you didn’t update the specs of the GTX 970 on any product page since the great new feature is public. Instead you’re fooling your customers onward with statements like this one. I’ll never buy a Nvidia product again, neither for me nor for other people I assemble a computer system.

  • e92m3

    And everyone who has been following the issue has seen numerous instances of the 970 displaying unacceptable frametime variation.
    Yes, many of these same people claim the performance is ‘smooth’.
    It’s not. Anyone who has actually run these titles on GPUs with sufficient performance can see the difference, even without graphing frametimes.

  • cyril

    you can return the device and get paid in full (courtesy amazon newegg)

  • Artesyin

    A few points:
    a) You gave out the wrong specs to reviewers/retailers, resulting in deceiving customers.
    After that, long silence and nothing to help people who felt they wanted to return the cards they bought. The effort and goodwill of some retailers who either took the card back or gave discounts should be commended.

    b) In game scenarios where the last 512MB segment is accessed (as much as the driver tries to avoid it – either by using very high settings/resolutions/downsampling/DSR or just the game having a high VRAM-foot print in general) there is evidence of stutters/bad frame times due to the low bandwidth available.

    c) Do you expect every game developer to make an exception for the 970 on how to use the VRAM now? Dying Light-devs explicitly mentioned the 970 in their patch notes and Far Cry 4 is rumoured to often cap out at 3.5GB on 4GB 980s since one of the latest patches for some reason. Both are Gameworks-titles, what a coincidence… .

    Best regards,
    an Nvidia-customer.

    PS: I didn’t buy a 970 because I’m quite happy with my Titan, but I will still voice my disappointment in how this whole topic was handled.

  • Glog78

    I’m honest … this is what is hurting most. As someone who had followed the discussion and as an owner of an gtx970 i’m so disapointed by such wordings.

    Never in history of pc’s you could make magically more ram without a sacrafice. It never worked selling it now as a feature make you just look dumb. You know what even hurts more that all the other spec’s which never got corrected in the first place still are nowhere mentioned.

    Do you realy need a link to a former / now known specs comparsion?

    How will you sell just plain missing rop’s and cache as a feature ?
    How will you explain that the printed (on my box) 224bit memory interface can never used in 1 read / write cycle and therefor the card never reaches the promised max bandwith?

    It’s a sad day for me as someone who !!! loved !!! and advertised nvidia products till today. Trust gone. My next product will only be a nvidia card if there is no way to avoid it and i’m right now cheering for amd to get their linux driver fixed / porting mantle to linux.

  • nonono

    Does not applies to every country*

    You forgot that part after “it’s basic consumer rights..”

  • Firstname Lastname

    It seems pretty clear why this was done and it’s a bit of a stretch to call it a feature. Here’s my pithy take.

    Nvidia needed to disable one L2 partition (with it’s associated ROP partition) to get the required yields/meet the price point they wanted. Unfortunately this meant that the 0.5GB of VRAM didn’t have direct access to the memory crossbar. They didn’t want to (for various reasons I’d guess marketing) sell a 3.5GB card so they came up with this kludged “buddy” arrangement where the memory controllers both share the same connection to the L2 and the memory crossbar. Why am I not excited!

  • coca yven

    Well

    What is truly appalling, is that you took off the market the high end 700 series, to offer graphics that performs the same….there is also to mention that it is likely you using bad born kepler chips integrated on a new board. Maxwell is neither power efficient but rather an optimized kepler.

    Cherry on top, there s NO gtx 780ti or titans or titan z available for purchase around…..so in the bottom line a 980 costs same and performs sometimes the same…..as for the 970 cards….it doesnt take much to figure that the really bad kepler, grade chips are what are used on those boards….only that the truth is that You was too concerned not to sell it, so you invented a 4GB escamotage.*(so lets better NOT mention 970 cards if 980 already is poor)

    Dear Mr CEO, I personally do not see You holding Your chair for much longer, and now You will not sell the intermediate chips(till u get a true new architecture produced), You are about to release, for what Your company has done defrauding the client.
    In the bottom Line we will still have to wait 24 months (june 2016) to see something truly new delivered from Your 8000 employees to the market.

    If You wanna do big business, dont behave like a small insignificant con artist at the train station, as You over and over got used to.

  • jonathon schott

    So it is stated that this was done on an engineering level to allow for more memory. And then you release the 960 with only 2gb And 128bit bus? Yes i see the positioning to allow for a card in between them, but call a duck a duck, this was done to alleviate the need to explain a 3.5 gb card to the consumer, when my guess is that TSMC is the real screwup here with their binning process, inability to manufacture a chip that has the features asked for. Watever vp suggested this course of action should be fired. Why am mad if i dont even own one? CHANGE YOUR BROKEN CORPORATE CULTURE. That is a blanket statement to any corporation reading this. Vote with your dollar people, and how nvidia handles this will decide wether or not i boycott this company going forward. That would be a shame because maxwell really is brilliant on many fronts and nvidia does great things pushing the envelope of what is possible with innovation that is ahead of the curve. All i have to say is take the hit, work directly with the consumer to find a solution, and fully admit wrongdoing, and then DONT DO IT AGAIN. Take the initave to change that corporate culture that is a detriment to this world, that is systemic and negative. Take the lead and show these companies how its done. That would garner respect in the consumer base.

  • That guy

    But it doesn’t have 4 gigs of memory, now does it?

    So quit saying it has 4 gigs and blowing off the issue.

  • LickassJen-Hsun

    We all wont card that have 64rop and 224bit and full 4gb card from adver. In this case it is gtx 980. So take my card, and give me real one, with real spec. then I will think in the future to buy a product from you,. You did not do anything to fix your mistake , we are not guilty , for your MISTAKE . You are.

  • The King

    Please use the profits gained from the GTX 970 scam operation to buy a bunch of ropes and pull a company-wide Robin Williams.

  • Simon Flynn

    Please sign this petition if you have a 970 but have been refused a refund:

    https://www.change.org/p/nvidia-refund-for-gtx-970

  • Simon Flynn

    I hope people are saving a copy of this letter. He will probably retract it shortly. Lmfao

  • jonathon schott

    I agree. I am E.E. by education and an IT admin for a small business by trade, there is no way anyone can convince me that this was not knowledge prior to release, with the ammount of torture testing these products go thru in beta, oh and has anyone thought of the fact fact that the drivers, albeit a bad attempt, were designed with a technical fix for this and released right before the cards? Sorry, but this is just another case of a major corporation trying to cover their tracks after the fact. Miscommunication would entail listing the wrong speed for the core or vram, ok id give them that as typos can happen. Somthing like this is a deeper deception and much more intentional, because if it does just boil down to an internal miscommunication, doesnt say much about their recently released grid cloud service for developers and simulators, or how they function internally as a company. Someone would expect more out of a company made up mostly of fellow Engineers, who im sure had nothing to do with this misinformation because we work with absolutes, 2+2=4 no matter how one writes it, and engineering is completely dependent on that concept alone, anything else is not engineering, only when pushing the envelope in design does the ability to ”fudge’ science come into play, NEVER after the fact in the testing phase. Fact. ANY engineer i know would be insulted to suggest otherwise, because it implies they are not properly doing their job.

  • lmao

    >complaining about the 970 because didnt buy a 980

  • Simon Flynn

    I think you hit the nail on the head in your last paragraph. I have said for a long time he is just an arrogant saleman. Nothing more.

  • Nbop

    This is shameful, Nvidia; and by that, I mean this “explanation”. I understand, that for legal reasons you cannot come out and say “we f**ked up/we lied/etc”. But instead of trying to make amends, your “made a mistake while trying to give the card more VRAM” tagline is pure BS. As many people have pointed out, the 980 doesn’t have this issue and is also on Maxwell. Saying, we could have made it the same as the 980 but the price(/profit margin) would have increased(/deceased), makes sense. Saying “next time it wont happen,” doesn’t mean anything to everyone who currently owns a 970. I don’t really care about the actual amount/speed of VRAM, as my 970 works well for for what do with it (for now). I just feel like you are treating your customers like idiots…

  • Myles Miller

    Not to mention the life of the card has been reduced due to how much vram games in future will use. Because 4gbs video cards are becoming common in a sense, developers will start to take advantage of it, and the 980 will be fine while the 970 will be screwed.

  • Simon Flynn

    + 100. Thats the best reason i heard so far and most likely.

  • Jim

    Horrible PR. I hope you’re giving refunds for people unhappy with their 970.

  • Simon Flynn

    Lmfao.
    “A conspiracy” Wtf.
    Lmfao

  • The Shiller (D W)

    Saying that the 970 was a 3GB card with 1GB of extended memory technically does not make sense, since 7 of the 8 memory channels were enabled. Correct me if I am wrong.

  • The Shiller (D W)

    Are you Jen-Hsun?

  • Simon Flynn

    The legal bill gonna be huge. Lawyers, Reverse engineering that 970, refunds.
    I wonder what other dirty secrets it holds.
    I want that g_sync technology looked at too. im sure its a con.
    Nvidias dirty tactics. Aired in public.

  • The Shiller (D W)

    You got an “additional 1GB”, so stop complaining!

  • Oehr

    Well you certainly did not explain how the card works from the start, but you intentionally mislead customers with false, made up specification of the card, which have nothing to do with your new “feature”: ROPs, L2 cache and memory bandwith. none of these correct!

    Before thinking about the future, why dont you clean up the mess first? I am still stuck on the 970, which I do not want!

  • Simon Flynn

    Anyone know how many chairman on the board at nvidia? i wonder if they are corrupt too, or will do the right thing.?

  • The Shiller (D W)

    Are you incinerating that Gigabyte, MSI. Asus, EVGA, Inno3D, KFA2, Palit, PNY & Zotac all knew that the last 0.5GB of the 970 memory operated at a much lower bandwidth. How could they have possibly known? What do they say now? “nVidia never told us”? “We never did a memory bandwidth diagnosis check”?

  • yoryo mondo

    Will buy another GTX your mother.

  • Krakn3dfx

    The super rich never do the right thing, that’s why they’re super rich. They love money more than honesty or integrity.

  • NvidaScum

    If the card were advertised as 3.5 GB + .5 GB it would not have come to market at the same price point.

  • Andreas Nyman

    And for us that dont buy from those places? Not everyone live in the us you know?!

  • Nathanael Freihart

    I isnt possible to make the last 512 mb go faster tahn the cut doen hardware alows it, software can only increase performance where are overheads (like DX12/Mantle). This 512mb are crippled and also the ROPS ant the cache are cut down. Maybe the 970 will be prioriced in the drivers coming the next month but it wont make the, cut downs magically disapear.

  • Shane Feazell

    I will most likely never buy from nvidia again, they care nothing about their customer. And blatently lie to our faces

  • Simon Flynn
  • wowsers

    This Nvidia Clown needs to be slapped silly.

  • kyuu

    how is it good design to castrate the 512mb out of 4gbs? ?

  • wowsers

    “We won’t let this happen again. We’ll do a better job next time”

    But the 970 advertisement has not changed even one bit. Where are the new specs? DUDE, I’M TALKING TO YOU!

  • Eddie Strike

    You guys suck for this. 390X soon. Can’t come sooner.

  • CrazyViking

    Hello AMD

  • JL

    Seriously?
    Are you using the same formula, reason (excuse) and essay from the past G84, G86 and G92 bump material lawsuit?
    This is my first nvidia GPU purchase after your bump material fiasco and you did it again?

  • neveragain

    a “we’re sorry” blog post? seriously? you have people’s money after the fact because you flat out lied to customers. your company practices are absolutely disgusting, retailers are still listing 970s as 4gb cards and still won’t take 970s back because you refuse to intervene except for this utterly useless blog post. it’s good to know in this day and age such amazing after service care like yours exists. it’s okay everyone, a blog post made it all okay! you may as well have done nothing at all. oh wait……

  • Captain Stabby

    Nvidia is sorry, but not sorry enough to compensate it’s customers. No you’ll leave that to your partners, distributors & retailers to foot that bill. What about the sales you denied your competitor with the incorrect information you pushed out.

    Funny about that you would think a company would be proud of the specs of what was to be their bulk selling card. unless they had something to hide. The way the information was released smacks of plausible deniability.

    So you expect us to believe the story that no one in Nvidia noticed that there was incorrect specifications given to the reviewers. How do you communicate in such a corporate environment? With smoke signals?

    BTW nice attempt at diverting peoples attention from the 970 with the mobile overclocking issue.

  • Spider Jerusalem

    Your only intention was to create the biggest cash flow for the corporation, we get that.

    To do that, you:

    Lied about memory.
    Lied about bus width.
    Lied about ROPs.

    You can’t come 4 months later and blame marketing for not properly advertising the specs. Your engineers don’t live in a bubble without any contact with the rest of the world.

  • clint_thompson

    Exactly. That’s like saying you’re selling a 4TB SSD but only the first 128GB is solid state and the rest is all platter.

  • clint_thompson

    I’m disappointed and I didn’t even buy the card. I view this as saying you’re selling a 4TB SSD drive when actually you’re getting the first 128GB in solid state and the rest is platter but later reveal its an architectural marvel for combining said technology, only not actually making that clear from the beginning.

    Could you imagine how many people would flip out if they bought a SSD drive only
    later to find out that it’s a hybrid and segmented as such with bottlenecked-performance as they accessed data outside of the first 128GB?

  • Pascal

    Come on, Jen-Hsun. Nvidia is a better brand than that. The only good part about this blog post is “We won’t let this happen again. We’ll do a better job next time.”

    I’m incredibly excited for Pascal’s technologies, and I’ve loved every Nvidia card I’ve ever bought. The fact of the matter is that Nvidia does better engineering than AMD. But heck, at least AMD doesn’t pull crap like this.

    Whatever benefit you thought pulling a stunt like this would give, I’m sure it didn’t outweigh this backlash. Speaking from my wallet, I have to say “Don’t do this again.”

  • Myles Miller

    That video is pretty damn funny

  • David Kavic

    I love my GTX980 but it doesn’t seem like a coincidence that this statement came out right after a class-action lawsuit was gaining press. Come on now Jen-Hsun.

  • Renz

    “insinuating”

  • [cTx]godsarmy

    I think the 970 is a really good card. got one for my little brother and its working great.

  • Kroux

    what about ncix?

  • Wow.

    This reads like we, the consumers, are ungrateful little bastards because we didn’t appreciate the fact that.5GB of the available 4 is 80% slower than the other 3.5GB. Like you’re doing us a favor here by giving us a card with a gimped chunk of memory.

    And I’m not reading into this. You said it yourselves.

    But what really galls me about this is that you’re calling it a feature.The fact that this is not a “feature” present on the GTX 980 is proof enough that it was never a “feature” to begin with. It’s an engineering flaw implemented by design either to further distance the 970 from the 980 and preserve the profit margin between the two or to save money on making the 970. Or both. Either way, this is scummy.

  • danglingparticiple

    No, they’re really not a better brand than that. Their marketing department has historically been really, really slick.

    Perhaps Jen-Hsun should tell us why desktop G-Sync supposedly requires an expensive module in the monitor while mobile G-Sync doesn’t. Duping consumers yet again? Unfortunately, I think so.

  • Ghost

    Clint i believe they never would have said a thing if they didn’t get “CAUGHT”

  • Yoshiro mx
  • Matt

    Nvidia uses Safe Face!… It’s not very effective.

  • Pathana Phommasith

    Newegg, Micro Center are giving full refunds no matter when you bought your card. Please be nice and courteous to the customer reps when informing them of your dissatisfaction of the card due to Nvidia’s deceit. I was given a full refund from Newegg and a buddy of mine was given a full refund at Micro Center. We both got our cards months ago. I hear Amazon is giving back 20% BUT if you push and express your concern a bit more they will grant 30%. Good luck everyone and REMEMBER BE NICE! It’s not the retailers fault that this happened.

  • CoolStoryBro

    That was my exact argument to newegg and they issued me a full refund for my nearly 5 month old cards. If I had know the issue with the VRAM i would have purchased a card with true 4gb of VRAM. Feel sorry for people that didn’t purchase from a good vendor in the US. I couldn’t figure out why the prices were so different between the 970 and 980. I would have been happy with what they are stating now back on release and i would have been able to make a informed decision based on facts, not lies.

  • Wepiha Te Ata

    BTW this will never happen again lol

  • Ulven

    “Instead of being excited that we invented a way to increase memory of the GTX 970 from 3GB to 4GB, some were disappointed” Seriously Nvidia? seriously? I’ll never buy another Nvidia product again… and i’ll not stop with the sue untill the end, you’ve just made a huge mistake and your response is that crap? C’mon! At least you could apologize in a better way, that’s all with me and this company.

  • Gab Huang

    Am I not Merciful? from Gladiator
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4jynjGTNLY

  • spelling jeenyos

    sooooo i got a sweet card for 335 shipped? Sold. cry me a river over 512mb of slower memory…. havent gotten this card to stutter on a single game.

  • sickbroski

    Jon Lajoie, brother
    “Lmfao”
    Jon Lajoie, brother

  • Socius

    Anyone want to show me a similarly priced video card that can beat the GTX 970 even if it were limited to 3GB, considering it has a 33% OC capability on air? No? Then you still got the best bang for your buck. And if you were to return your GTX 970 now, you’d still not find a better option to purchase. So stop whining over nothing. Bunch of poor people crying over a $300 video card…

  • Grinder

    GTX 970 has a default clock of 1050mhz, but with an average clock of 1178mhz due to boost (it will go much higher on some). Meanwhile the average overclock takes it to 1437mhz http://hwbot.org/hardware/videocard/geforce_gtx_970/

    If we take the boost clock to be the average expectation one has out of a stock 970, then it has an overclock potential of only 22%, far from your claim of 33%

    Meanwhile, the GTX 780 has a default of 863mhz, and an average boost of 900mhz, while the average overclock is 1172mhz. http://hwbot.org/hardware/videocard/geforce_gtx_780/

    Doing the same calculation, we get 30% overclock capability. Even from baseclocks, the 970 does 37% while the 780 does 36%.

    Going by the Anandtech benchmarks, the GTX 780 does perform worse, http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1036?vs=1355
    but with the greater overclocking headroom, this is bridgeable. The GTX 780 has 3gb of VRAM.

    While the 970 is rated for a much lower TDP, it frequently overshoots this, http://i.imgur.com/xJUoOu8.png This is also reflected in the Anandtech benchmark where only 27 watts separate the two cards in an actual game.

    In summary, oh I’m laughin, their own previous gen card is better AND was properly marketed.

  • Socius

    I don’t have a GTX 970 myself. I have 3 Titans on a $2500 water cooling setup. I also have a GTX 750 on my office PC, and prior to that I had 2 GTX 690s and before that 4 GTX 680 Classified cards with EVBOT. I built a system using the cheapest noname GTX 970 for $300 during christmas break for a friend. On first attempt, it overclocked perfectly to 1500MHz. I forget what I got the memory up to. And I didn’t even max out the voltage to accomplish this. Based on stock boost clocks (it was an already overclocked card), this was a 33% increase for the card. During extensive testing for hours on end, the GPU always stayed in below 80c.

    So I’m going off of my experience. An OC’d GTX 970 is a beast of a card.

  • Grinder

    That is only a 27% OC, worse than the average GTX 780 OC

    Good math

    And if you’d like I could mention the 290X, of which there is currently a card going for $310 on Newegg. While it will not OC as well, the stock performance is parity even with the stock cooler: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1059?vs=1355

    AMD really boned themselves with that cooler by the way, heres a 290X roundup compared to the GTX 7 series.
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-and-290x,3728-5.html

    Best 290X there only has an 8% OC by the way.

  • Socius

    290X uses too much power, creates too much heat, and as you mentioned…not great at OC’ing. Not to mention no Shadowplay. And yes while the GPU clock OC is only 27%, the memory OC resulted in the additional 6%. If I remember correctly I think the actual increase in the 3DMark graphics score was 34.x%

    Forgetting the “percent increase” portion, the increase in MHz on the GTX 970 should be higher than the GTX 780. And keep in mind you’re comparing a card that was selling for $700-$800, to one selling for $300.

    AMD actually has a decent architecture in place for performance. But they’ve had trouble with efficiency which leads to more power draw which leads to more heat which leads to reduced clocks and OC’ing. Once they take care of that, they’ll be back in the game. But for now…they’re lacking.

  • The Shiller (D W)

    Are you being double ironic on me?

  • Grinder

    Unfortunately I had a large reply typed up, but it seems to have been deleted by moderation, after a period of “your comment is awaiting moderation”

  • JC

    They were all lied to, Nvidia should be compensating them to replace the consumer cards. No one had considered even testing the memory in any of the reviews. One person felt like something was off, that the card would drop SO much in performance, and created a program that specifically loads the video memory and tests latency. And now, this is the result.

  • MarK

    So he’s basically saying what we knew already: we screwed up, but since we have your money, we don’t care. But “we’ll do a better job next time” so you can give us $400/$800 again.

    This is plain and utter BS. Even if it was a misunderstanding internally, many of their consumers understand technology well enough to know the difference between a 256bit bus size and 224bit with another 32bit slapped on. Nvidia seems to think users don’t know what they want and thus Nvidia has to tell them: “you don’t need 4GB, 3.5GB/3.0GB is enough for you. So here’s a 3.5GB/3.0GB card disguised as a 4GB card”. I’m sorry, but I’m perfectly capable of deciding for myself what hardware I want to buy.
    Sure, it is good design by itself, but the memory simply cannot be described exactly the same as the memory of a GTX 980 if it is that different.

    If you wanted us being exited about the increase from 3GB to 4GB, you should have said if from the beginning. How do you expect anybody to be exited if you don’t tell them??

  • JC

    Tigerdirect does not allow this. They send me 2 $20 GC’s instead. I mean.. WTF? I am not using these GC’s until I find out what the resolution is, will return them to get a refund.

  • MarK

    If the card was advertised as a 3GB card we would have gotten an extra 1GB indeed. With the everybody being told the card had 4GB at 256bit, we have less than was promised.

  • Socius

    Well the VRM’s feed the core. So the more juice required, the hotter they get. I have the same problem with my GTX Titans. I have an insane $2500 water cooling setup. But I bought first generation XSPC blocks that don’t cover the VRM. So even though I have an unlocked VRM, I can only OC it to 1500MHz+ for short periods of time before it crashes, even though the core is under 40c. So I’m well aware of the problems there. Anyway, glad we could turn this into a more civil chat near the ends.

  • MarK

    Interestingly there is one SLI review noting frame drops during FCAT analysis:
    http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/geforce-gtx-970-sli-review,1.html

    They were not able to pinpoint the cause at the time though, so readers didn’t know it was the GPU or some other bottleneck.

  • MarK

    That’s probably what he means with “this won’t happen again”. Next time, they’ll make sure nobody will find out :p

  • kkkaizer

    Seeing all this shows how companies like Nvidia make fool of consumers and give excuses like “This is not a bug, Its a feature” that too when people are slamming lawsuits on them. They wouldn’t have cared if not for the lawsuits.

    I guess money is everything, which they got from this “feature”.

    I wish the world had less rotten people like Nvidia.

  • qefyr .

    How about GTX660GTX660Ti with 1.5Gb fast and 0.5Gb slow memory? Huang, return my money!

  • Jason

    I don’t need a refund for my two cards, would be a pointless waste of time! Those cards have now dropped in value and worth less on the second hand market. At least give us some compensation like Steam codes AND a bloody software fix to disable that last problematic portion of RAM would certainly help ALOT!

  • pdd

    The only sensible comment in this whole thread.

  • ian

    Please do not say that the memory bandwidth is 224 (GB / sec)
    Because GTX970 is not!

  • ffdde

    Don/t xia j8 jiujie again!

  • afrogunso77 .

    “We invented a new memory architecture in Maxwell.”

    Nvidia really underestimated their customer base, they could have sold the 970 with 3gb at the same price and it still would have sold well or driven 980 sales up.

    Alas they just couldnt resist, innovation is in their blood. Imagine when Hsun was notified by engineers that finally they were able to put 4gb on the 970, they must have celebrated so much they forgot to inform marketing..but the driver team was notified.

    The reason this whole fiasco was discovered was the drivers dont want the card to use more than 3.5gb. Users found this odd and started wondering why. For those who still hold out hope in their green hearts that this issue will be fixed by drivers..not only is the .5gb much slower but both memory pools cannot be read at once! The driver uses system RAM because its faster than using that last .5gb.

  • rony

    You don’t know the difference between ‘insinuating’ and ‘incinerating’.

  • Ягун Зумпелич

    Производительность этой карты меня полностью устраивает, все новые игры работают на ней замечательно, к чему все эти придирки?
    Может вам еще в спеках предоставить подробную схему строения графического чипа? Я не защищаю Хуанга, но он в общем то прав.

    Sorry for ma english, but The performance of this card completely satisfied for me, all new games run on it fine, why all these attacks?
    Maybe you are still in the spec’s provide detailed diagram of the structure of the graphics chip? I’m not advocating Huang, but he said, all is as.

  • Shinichi Izumi

    “The 4GB of memory on GTX 970 is used and useful to achieve the performance you are enjoying”

    I’m achieving stuttering @ 1080p, and it’s the furthest thing from being enjoyable.

    #iwant4GB

  • kkkaizer

    No you cant, my retailer clearly denied any kind of refund

  • lol

    With this you have started a very heavy shitstorm 😀

  • prosuckaman

    Who was this person and what is the program?

  • JebaczKoz

    Did someone forget what happened a few years ago with Fermi (dummy)

  • Grinder

    Они заявляли, что у карты было 2048 килобайт кэша второго уровня и 64 ROP(растровом процессора), но на самом деле карта имела только 1792 кб и 56 ROP, 1/8 заявленных спецификаций просто не было. Проблема с памятью появилась именно из за этого, так как 1/8 памяти работает на 1/7 скорости остальной памяти и растянута на оставшиеся 7 секторов.

    Это противозаконно в США и ЕС и является простым разводом.

  • Simon Flynn

    the ultimate punishment will be when all 970 owners realize they can get a full refund and upgrade to an AMD 390x

    I should think for most owners there is little brand loyalty and that that upgrade will be too good to miss

    AMD could help by offering an incentive for them too, maybe a little discount.

  • Grinder
  • jenxrj

    Cause its Nvidia mate, the way its meant to be GIMPED…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIM_1uGWPo

  • Ahmet Yurdakul

    What an excuse! Are you going to refund your customers or not ?

  • 猴不是我耍的,是临时工耍的

  • AnEternalEnigma

    “Unfortunately, we failed to communicate this internally to our marketing team, and externally to reviewers at launch.”

    Oh, that poor marketing team and those poor reviewers. How about the CONSUMERS you failed to communicate this to? Consumers like me, who now own a 970 and didn’t quite get what I was told I was getting?

    “We won’t let this happen again. We’ll do a better job next time.”

    Next time? But I bought your card *this* time. Don’t worry though, Jen-Hsun, I’ll do a better job too; I won’t be buying any of Nvidia’s stuff anymore. After whatever I decide to do with this falsely-advertised 970, I’ll be going back to AMD.

    Your “features” suck and your apologies suck even harder.

  • Grinder

    They advertised a car as having a V8, but one cylinder turns out to be fake

    “you should be happy it’s not a V6, we found how to make a V7 + 1 work”

  • mac

    lame cheater, u intention was …. people !

  • Firstname Lastname

    It’s relative performance/value is completely irrelevant, the issue is being misled.

    I think Hanlon’s Razor would be more appropriate.

    You have no idea what happened behind the scenes.

  • HHawk

    Jen-Hsun Huang; I can only pray that you get hit by a car and run over (several times) like an egg roll. That’s how the people feel who bought a Nvidia GTX 970!

  • Leeroy Ibarra

    No one had been mad prior to Nvidia not accepting the fact that they false advertised. It’s a 3.5 gb card not a 3gb or 4gb card. You can’t say that the last .5 make it a 4gb card, because it’s unusable. Nvidia’s trying to tell tech enthusiast something that isn’t true, which further adds to the flame.

  • Tom-Helge Andersen

    Question. If the last 512 MB of the VRAM is making some games to stutter and so on, isn’t it better to just disable the last 512 MB of the VRAM in the driver (if that’s possible) so games don’t use the last 512 MB of the VRAM?

    I would rather have 3.5 GB of working VRAM and a completely smooth gaming experience rather than having the last 512 MB on top of the 3.5 GB that messes things a little up.

    I would like to hear from you NVIDIA if this is possible to do. Yes i own a GTX 970 my self.

  • Simon Flynn

    I think that’s what they are doing.

  • Tom-Helge Andersen

    I hope so. But so far, i haven’t experienced any stutters on my GTX 970, but that’s because i play at 1080p and not higher resolutions.

    But it’s still better to be on the safe side to later if i’m getting a screen with a higher resolutions.

  • bizzart

    Who Cares? Would it really have made that much of a real world difference. It’s still a damn good card. What exactly have AMD done to compete with CUDA, Shield, Gamestream, Shadowplay, Gameworks, Geforce Experience etc. I’ve been playing a whole host of games on Nvidia GRID through my Shield which they provide for FREE. The’re more passionate about games and their customers than anyone.
    Go and look up a list of the world’s most un-ethical, deceiving companies and tell me you will ‘never buy from them again’.

  • Guest

    What about my 8 missing ROPs?

  • Simon Flynn

    3.5gb will not help you when you switch to a higher resolution regardless of what optimizations they push to the driver now.

  • Tom-Helge Andersen

    That might be true. But it would still be better with the 3.5 GB of VRAM over having the extra 512 MB that makes some games to stutter.

    I actually run some games at 2715×1527 DSR where the resolution gets downscaled to 1080p again, so i do run some games at higher resolutions actually (i forgot about that as i was thinking on my 1080p screen instead).

    But still, i haven’t seen any stutters yet. But that might be because i haven’t looked hard enough. So i will look more into it now.

  • MarK

    It might be possible, but if they’d do that they’ll need to recall every single GTX 970 since it would not live up to the 4GB spec any more. Their only defence in this whole mess has always been “the card still has 4GB and can use al this memory if needed”.

  • Wo_WD

    Ok, for memory is clear 😛 ROP and cache ?

  • uncore

    I would buy a GTX960Ti 4GB using a 192bit asynchronous memory configuration 128bit+64bit [4x512MB+2x1GB]
    like a GTX660 and GTX660Ti

    but it seems not possible anymore, because of some new FEATURES

    the GTX970M 192bit has only 3GB or 6GB variants
    means NO mixing of different VRAM-Chip-capacities anymore

    welcome 32bit-bonus-controller nobody wants you

  • Firstname Lastname

    Why are there still links on Nvidia’s website that lead to reviews with these specification errors. [URL=”http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-970-maxwell,3941.html”]Here[/URL], [URL=”http://hothardware.com/Reviews/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980–970-Maxwell-GPU-Reviews/”]here[/URL] and [URL=”http://www.pcgamer.com/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-970-g1-gaming-review/”]here[/URL]. All link directly from the 970 page on Geforce.com using information provided directly by Nvidia.

    “[B][I]It’s not really about what Nvidia has decided to cut from the second-tier 900-series card, it’s about what they’ve left in.

    The GPU is still running with the same 2MB of L2 cache onboard, is still rocking the same sixty-four render output units (ROPs) and still retains the same algorithmic advances that makes the 256-bit memory bus viable for a card that’s aiming at 4K gaming performance. And it’s the 4GB of GDDR5 video memory Nvidia have retained for their second-tier Maxwell card that makes it still so competitive despite being priced far lower than it’s big brother.[/I][/B]”

    That’s the kind of statement that would encourage me to purchase a card and it’s factually incorrect.

  • Shiner42

    256-Bit……..my GTX 460 had that years ago…..this whole GTX 900 series is disappointing.

  • n0n0

    <– Not a fanboy, I own more than just Nvidia.

    This old news that you all are mostly crying about things based on principle. Time to get new hobbies.

  • SauronHimself

    Thanks, Jen-Hsun. By admitting you failed to communicate with your marketing team, you just admitted to negligence. Thanks for making the class-action lawsuit admissible.

  • uncore

    Some games don´t address the last 512MB even at 4K or more,
    that results in reload-stuttering aswell.
    the 512MB is a obsolete Marketing-gag
    resulting in:
    Addressing users targeting 4K or higher Res ending in a Dilemma wich is nVidias fault of Marketing with wrong Specs

  • uncore

    FACT: the marketing addressed users needing full 4GB
    but the GTX970 can only satisfy that 4GB needing with 7/8 or 87.5%.

    So a 12.5% worse or inferior product is not done by mistake, it was a calculated risk.
    BUT for the enduser

  • gtnx

    I’m not buying it. (Literally)

  • o0cacoto0o

    I have to disagree with the statement they don’t care about the customer. They have been trying to register my GTX card and been calling me back to help me choose the SLI bridge that will work with my motherboard. Did they make a mistake with the gtx970 fiasco? Yes they did, but they do care about the clients. And they did offer a full refund for the 970. So if you want to return your 970 for full price, do so. I’m keeping mine since I don’t care if it’s less than 4gigs, but I cannot afford a 980 nor do they sell the reference card where I live. The 970 reference cost me less than 300 dollars at best buy, but it was a needed upgrade from the EVGA 560 Ti DS superclocked.

    Do I want a small compensation for being lied to? Well tbh it would be nice for us 970 owners to get something, but I feel it’s wrong to ask for a full refund while we keep the card. What I do want though is if they make the 970Ti, they can give us the free upgrade for that so long as we provide a proof of purchase and return the card back to them for a full 4gig 970 card.

  • o0cacoto0o

    Then call nvidia and ask them to help you with it. Nvidia has been nothing but friendly and helpful with me. If you want a refund I’m sure they’ll help you with it so long as you got proof of purchase.

  • Johnny Rook

    I call this BS!
    The “unacceptable frametime variation” you are mentioning do not occour at normal gaming scenarios (you know, framerates people actually play at – i.e. 40-60fps or above). To “see” or “experience” the frametime variations, I had to make it happen on purpose by cranking up the graphics settings to ridiculous parameters (like SoM @4K with Ultra Textures meant for +6GB VRAM cards). However, under such extreme circumstances, even the “all mighty” GTX 980 renders the games at less than 20FPS! I spell it for you: L E S S T H A N T W E N T Y frames-per-second.
    So, who de heck cares the GTX 970 shows higher frametime variations than GTX 980 @ 20FPS?! Maybe console peasents do care about under 30FPS gaming scenarios, just not the pc master race.

  • o0cacoto0o

    Actually farcry4 was pretty good though. It is the best game ubisoft has launched.

  • o0cacoto0o

    Friendly customer service works but if they deny, I’m sure contacting nvidia can help you out more over the phone. Nvidia did mess up big time, and I’m not giving them a free pass, but I like my 970. Also people are still buying them at the best buys near me, since the reference cards are flying off the shelf.

  • Zabaniya

    What a useless and ridiculous attempt at an explanation. People paid for a full 4gb card. Not some bs ‘3.5+0.5 reduced bandwidth’. I don’t care if the person who bought it only plays Minecraft. They paid for something and they did not get the advertised product.

    And what kind of invention makes something worse. If that is your idea of invention, might I suggest a change in staff who came up with it.

    Lastly, you just say ‘we’ll do a better job next time’?? That is a slap to the customer. No compensations no anything. Might as well write ‘gg nooblet. got yo monies. give mo’ money next time’

  • Giggitygoebbels

    ‘Our only intention was to create the best GPU for you’
    If that is the case,the last 2MB of cache should not be disabled in the first place,you could have disabled more ROPs/CUDA cores instead.Out of so many things you can disable to differentiate it and a 980,you just have to [i]nail[/i] it.

  • Giggitygoebbels

    It does not really matter,a 780Ti is better than a 290X even with 1GB less.

  • Greg Zen

    No I doubt he is incinerating them.

  • luckyo

    He talking about microstuttering that occurs when last 0.5GB are used. This is why nvidia is talkinjg about “frame rate” only when comparing. Current hypothesis is that the reason for micro stuttering is the fact that accessing last 0.5GB of VRAM trashes the cache for 0.5GB of main VRAM batch or that the blockage of access to other 3.5GB when 0.5GB additional piece of ram is access is causing it.

    Microstuttering is a serious issue not visible by measuring raw FPS, as we have seen earlier when AMD’s microstuttering was discovered.

  • Jonathan A Dunlap

    Short, concise, well said response Jen-Hsun.

  • Simon Flynn

    even though its all utter c**p and smacks of arrogance.

  • Pathana Phommasith

    I agree it’s nice but for 4k I did experience issues with my framerate with SLI. Buyer beware with anything.

  • MarK

    Gaming at 4K on a single 970? Sorry, but I find that hard to believe.

    Numerous reviews have been testing show an average fps of around 15-30 when gaming at a UHD resolution on a single 970. Even SLIed 970s have some difficulties when throwing a 4K gaming scenario at them.

    Example: http://www.techspot.com/review/898-geforce-gtx-970-sli-4k-gaming/page2.html

  • Patrick.C

    ”You’re holding it wrong” – as next sign from Nvidia

  • KOBKStreak .

    http://youtu.be/6y_GEvObFRQ
    should try looking around…
    looks fine to me at 4K for a single card. Move along hater.

  • Joshua Brown

    Somewhere, someone miscommunicated! (They’re sorry for the miscommunication and they’ll work harder to clarify things for the end-user in the future.)

    The marketing department gets all their information from the engineering department…so they’re just going by what they’re told and don’t know any better.

    So the marketing department creates the ads and the packaging and releases the specs and sends out sample units for review…

    And NOBODY ELSE in the company sees any of thesee materials before it goes to market and says, “Hey, this is somewhat incorrect and maybe we should clarify…”

    It doesn’t matter who was in charge of communications between departments! Because these products are developed, designed and produced by a collection of departments collectively known as “the company,” AKA nVidia! They ALL have a responsibility to check out their new products before they launch.

  • MarK

    I took a look at the article linked in the video description: “Even with the quality settings dialled down a notch, the GTX 970 clearly struggles at 4K”.

    It might run okay with some older games, but graphics tend to improve rather fast. Guess it depends on the settings, which fps one experiences as “fine” (if you invest in a 4K gaming monitor, I can imagine one to not settle for “30 fps at best”) and how long you intend to keep your card(s).

  • Joshua Brown

    Exactly! Nobody else is looking at the marketing materials for their own products?

  • sof_Elder

    Why on earth would you hope the “greedy lawyers take what they can”? This hurts NVidia how? It simply means the company will cut costs / raise prices to ensure there’s enough money to pay the next round of executive bonuses. In reality it does nothing for the consumer.

  • Winnetou Papadopolous

    Failed in communication?
    In some countries people killed for less!
    You have failed in trustworthy behavior.
    You have failed in selling a product with failures!
    You have earned money because you have betrayed people!

  • Nomotos

    Because if you look at the settings for that game, it says you need 6GB of VRAM to run the Ultra HD textures, so unless you are running 2 cards anyway you’re not gonna run Ultra textures in SoM.

  • vladx

    Definitely not true, stop exaggerating, your hatred is simply disgusting…

  • Paul Bryant

    Make that guy’s shirt two sizes too small (makes him look bigger/little man syndrome) and asian and you nailed it.

  • 10ee

    Wowzers it’s a feature! Consider me happy now that I bought a couple of these 970s. I guess I can now sell my two R9 290X adapters, because, hey, they don’t have this feature!!!! Great job nVidia

  • Primus Inter Pares

    Shame on nVidia and their attitude over misinforming the public into buying something… it is called false advertising and is consider a bad business practice. Without the class action, Jen-Hsun would have never mind addressing the issue.

  • Rick N April Dyson

    Ok, So here’s the facts , everyone was told the gtx970 had the same memory system that was in it’s bigger brother at launch time. You also knew the gtx 970 was not going to sell well at 192bit bus and 3 gigs of VRam,Also said card would not look good on paper vs the Amd offerings. Every nerd or PC passionate person saw only cores missing vs the gtx 980 meaning memory config looks the same so just overclock the gtx 970 to gtx 980 levels and you would have a $550 performance for $350. This I think would be the reason that Nvidia sold so many gtx 970, Also the talk of all the pc techs with their mouths open talking good about this gtx 970 made others buy it. Then you let 4 months go by after xmas when most people bought 1440p screens saw the cap on the 4 gig of Vram to 3.5 and found out the l2 cache was less and rops were less.. I bet this was a marketing move this whole time. One No one every spoke about the specs after 4 months! Yes you got free word of mouth press form all the techies online to push your gtx970 only to get caught later, witch you bet would not happen cause it’s hard to test for except that German programmer that made a program to test the gtx970 and found out your tricks .. Tricks to make this a 4 gig card on paper .. now your telling us it was for us to get close to 4 gigs? Why nvidia could you leave the l2 cache alone? leave it with the same memory system as the gtx 980 and cut the Rops out and cores .. boom 4 gig card $449 at launch. Problem you had lots of Bin chips that the l2 cache was broken and you hack a card together to hold you over till 16nm die was in .

  • EWatson

    Its also on nvidia’s own site stil (256bit, 4GB @224GB/s)l: http://i.imgur.com/fZj0aIf.png
    I wasn’t even going to post this image to keep the attention away from it but I feel people need to know about it. No info on the cache though.

  • AngryBadger

    Thanks for the heads up. Going to see what Amazon can do for me now. I am disappointed about this whole thing from Nvidia. I have unfortunately ran into issues with the card and now it seems this may be the culprit. 🙁 What’s that saying about if something is too good to be true? lol :

  • afrogunso77 .

    Thermi. Good times. Late to market, power hungry, very hot, yet it released a bit before its rescheduled release date and the tech review sites reported it as early release lol The same people who bash the 290x cards for having higher tdp flocked to buy these claiming proudly that they were designed to run hot and use power, due to sheer awesome ness. haha

  • Since this card is significantly less powerful than was advertised Nvidia should give everyone who bought it a 20% refund.

  • LinuxDude

    Why weren’t the “real” specs revealed right from the beginning?

  • Ingo Knito

    “Our new photo camera has 40 MP. However, the peripheral 5.0 MP of the additional 10 MP is segmented and has reduced bandwidth. This is a good design because we were able to add an additional 10 MP and our camera engineers can keep less attractive objects in
    the 5.0 MP segment.”

    Well played, Mr. Jen-Hsun! Well played.
    *clapping hands*

  • Mike Mauch

    Thats exactly how this guy “makes the big bucks” calling a defect a feature with a straight face is exactly the type of guy a company needs as president. I swear that must be what they teach in college these days. I wonder why this “feature” isnt on the GTX 980…. Will somebody punch this guy in the balls, please.

  • James Bobo

    Itt: we got caught sucking, time to play damage control with words like “feature” and “we failed”

  • James Bobo

    Exactly. Or they will probably dmca takedown all reviews and just make it more interesting because everyone knows when that happens it blows up 10x

  • James Bobo

    Sadly it does for people who seriously don’t care about anythingpast the sale. Once you give that money to the retailer you bought it from, they’ve won.

  • James Bobo

    Here’s to hoping the judge demands nvidia gives all 970 owners free 980s at nvidias expense.

  • Franpa

    I think everybody would’ve rathered you leave it at 3.5GB instead of 3.5GB + 512MB of slowpoke memory. At least then performance would be consistent regardless of how the card is used.

  • Franpa

    They are offering a full refund.

  • tomthebomb024

    you are the only joke here Dany..
    pathetic fanboi

  • 4gig means 4gig & all this statment is like “We’re sorry we got caught here….we’ll make sure we don’t get caught again”

  • manekk

    Too little, too late.

    I have read this post twice, and I still fail to see these simple words “I’m sorry”. There is still hope though that you will amend it in a few months, exactly like you did with the false specs of GTX 970…
    And why does this comment appear after so many weeks since you got caught, and only after you have been taken to court? All of this is just making your statement sound enforced and not honest.
    Why don’t you mention also false information about L2 cache and ROPs? Maybe because there is no explanation for people making cards to not know how many of those their own cards have.

    Forgive me not being being excited (as you have expected) for getting 4GB instead of 3. I never knew that I was supposed to get 3GB in the first place and I got 1 more as a freebie from my good uncle Nvidia. I am only disappointed that I have bought a card with less memory, cache and ROPs that I paid for, not reliable memory btw, and that I have wasted so much time fighting for my right to return a false advertised product.
    You mention that you’ll do a better job next time. There will be no next time with me. After many years of using Nvidia products I am switching to AMD, for good, or until they will prove to be equally mendacious – hopefully never as you have set the bar very high.

  • Bruce Campbell

    How about the press releases and documents to press where you claimed the same ROPs/Cache as a GTX 980 Nvidia? Oh wait. Don’t want to admit that ram was not the only false statement here.

    To fellow GTX 970 owners. Here is the lawyer handling the case. Incoming ban by Nvidia, but who cares. Having to deal with their astroturfing on forums (which is illegal and they should be fined for), gang attacks and harassment, and having to deal with a corrupt media whom they sponsor and advertise on and control? Last Nvidia product I ever buy.

    WHATLEY KALLAS LLP
    Alan M. Mansfield (SBN 125998)
    amansfield@whatleykallas.com
    1 Sansome Street, 35th Fl., PMB # 131
    San Francisco, CA 94104
    Tel: (415) 860-2503
    Fax: (888) 331-9633

    Games Works also sucks. Thanks for ruining our console ports even more Nvidia. Can’t play these games with two GTX 980’s let alone one GTX 970, and that is at freakin 1080p with downgraded graphics and assets. Hey maybe we can play Witcher 3 with XB1 textures/assets on 2 of Nvidia’s next series card. WOO HOO. Game should be running at 1440p on one of these current cards. Stop sabotaging our games clowns.

  • Yofiel Malachi Yacov

    What about the L2 Cache? What about the ROPs? what about the bandwidth?

    Its not only about the 4GB

  • Dead Giveaway

    Blaming the consumers? Classy.

    Dig that hole deeper.

  • Jack_Marshak

    No they aren’t.

  • Jack_Marshak

    Haha, really? According to my manufacturer Nvidia says the card is perfectly fine and working how it was designed.

  • Simon Flynn

    Invented a new memory architecture.
    Lmfao
    The one where 4Gb is 4Gb all running at the same speed was perfect. You know, the same as on the 980.
    Muppett and completely arrogant moron

  • o0cacoto0o

    I mean call Nvidia directly, they might be able to help you out more, so long as you got proof of purchase and tell them the 970 brand you got. After all, they did say they would do a full refund for anyone who wanted it and they’ll help out anyone who wishes it. It’s worth a try IMO.
    http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-will-help-gtx-970-refunds-roll-out-driver-update/

    https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/803518/geforce-900-series/gtx-970-3-5gb-vram-issue/post/4438090/#4438090

  • Simon Flynn

    ‘our only intention was to create the best GPU for you’.
    You built it with faulty 980 parts. You were not thinking about the consumer at all. You just had high yeilds of defective parts and just had to sell them somehow resulting in the most distateful unethical practise i have seen from a business. I actually can’t ever remember blatent lies being told to consumers in this way.
    You must be severely punished and made an example off.
    Crooks

  • rigocontreras

    This is a serious question. In what way could that last 512MB with it being lower bandwidth be of any benefit to the end user? It seems any time this memory is used performance would suffer.

  • rigocontreras

    I about pissed my pants watching this.

  • Requios

    “we failed to communicate this internally to our marketing team”

    You are asking for the exact thing that they admitted doing wrong. Read the article next time.

  • Simon Ayres

    This doesn’t address the lower rop count and memory bandwidth, nor does it mention any intention to rectify the issue.

  • Dan

    I bought 2 x 970’s for gaming at 4K, games running at this resolution are always going to hit the 3.5gig usage mark. I want a refund or 2 x 980’s

    Will you make this happen Jen-Hsun ?

  • Timothy Alexander Wells

    You’re sorry? That sort of thing isn’t just an oversight, and it’s not like you haven’t done 4gb cards before. This isn’t some revolutionary process, you took lower binned chips and sold them as 4gb when they’re 3.5gb of gddr5 + a gimpy .5gb.

    “Our only intention was to create the best GPU for you. We wanted GTX 970 to have 4GB of memory, as games are using more memory than ever. ”

    Bravo on that front /s

  • InformedWatcher

    Open your Eyes
    AMD has Raptr, Mantle, Freesync, ect. GRID is only free for a little bit longer before it goes into a subscription system. Nvidia knew about the problem and ignored it. Also stated they purposely left out some features in order for you to buy the 980 even though its the same cost.

  • InformedWatcher

    And where does the 780TI comes in with things like DX12? Oh yeah it consumes more power with only 10 more fps. AMD has more memory so you can bump Far Cry 3 at 4k on max settings whereas your Nvidia card can only hold its own on medium. So if you bring up the 980 I have to say it took Nvidia a year in order to make a competitor. So when you get out of you green Nvidia shell you can see that AMD is a closer competitor than you think

  • nvidio geeforse

    Hey moderators 🙂

    Sick of censoring me yet?

    Naww, what’s wrong nvidio can’t take a bit of an internet smackdown? And from a loyal customer too.

  • TylerSumhb

    After reading this article, and being a die hard Nvidia fan and user. The point where he brings up “Instead
    of being excited that we invented a way to increase memory of the GTX 970 from
    3GB to 4GB, some were disappointed that we didn’t better describe the segmented
    nature of the architecture for that last 1GB of memory.” is just wrong. He is blaming the customer for bring up problems with there cards. They need you own up to there own mistakes

  • Carlos

    Sadly i will never again buy a Nvidia Card, you guys are shady.

  • kroms

    Wow is Nvidia now blocking posts ?

  • kroms

    yup it seems so. Post something they don’t , like a link to something such as the Nvidia Youtube engineer video and they delete it.

    WOW.

  • jode

    for me there will not be a “next time”, this is the second time that nvidia has lied to me.

  • Franpa

    Huh, there was a forum post from an Nvidia staff member stating that you can return the video card to where you purchased it from and get a full refund but maybe that post has been rescinded. It also said to get in direct contact with Nvidia if the retailer refuses.

  • Aaron NYC

    yes they are

  • John

    hahahahahahhahha

  • Captain Stabby

    Keep on digging Nvidia censorship will only make it worse.

  • indelible

    So let me get this straight? You’re saying that you lied to us, that you intentionally misled us, that it was a brilliant design decision anyway, and we should just all move on.

    Well I guess I and many others simply won’t be buying Nvidia again any time soon.

    Also, might want to think about replacing your CEO with someone willing to take responsibility for the corruption in his company 🙂

  • millslane

    Wow

  • Bruce Campbell

    Yeah right. This company was built on corruption. Heck, this company probably had former MS employees start it. The astroturfing, the arrogance, the anti competitive practices like Game Works (I have no idea how they do not get fined for this or the myriad of astroturfing done 24/7 on forums) are straight out of Microsoft’s Comes VS Microsoft documents.

    http://www.electronista.com/articles/12/01/28/nvidia.said.pushing.kepler.trashing.radeon.7900/

    Like MS, they are so dirty they will probably have to heavily invest in lobbying soon.

  • indelible

    The WHOLE COMPANY is monumentally incompotent. Get over it.

  • Casuist

    I forgive you guys. Mistakes happen. 🙂 Piss on all the idiots whining about it and trying to sue for such an incredibly petty mistake. Seriously, it was a high-performance budget card, what do you expect?

    I was one of the first to purchase the 970 FTW from EVGA and I couldn’t be happier. I have a 2.5 year old rig, ONLY updated my graphics card and it completely revitalized my gaming experience. I play everything on 1080p Ultra graphics with 30+ frames easily; even in 3D!

  • Casuist

    How exactly were we deceived? They said it was a 4GB card… Oh LOOK!! It IS a 4GB card. The configuration is insignificant IMHO. Furthermore, where the heck are you paying $750 for the 970? I got my EVGA 970 FTW edition for only $370.

  • C.S. Loberg

    Fire your ENTIRE marketing department. The only way this thing gets out is if some moron says, YEAH the INTERNET WILL LOVE THIS. I cannot even believe this was published. You just convinced all the people that didn’t care about this to HATE you more. GREAT JOB GUYS.

    MORONS.

  • Mariachi

    I didn’t picture nVidia’s employees (engineers) as people who says: “We did our job. Next is up to you and we don’t CARE what you do with this”. In my mind they should correct marketing error.

    On the other hand IMHO they shouldn’t press for 256-bit bus when last 2×32 bit memory controlers share bandwith which hinders whole 224-bit performance. They should settle for 224-bit and 3.5GB in the first place.

  • Mariachi
  • millslane

    That’s not true. New games at that resolution may hit that mark. Last generation games won’t. Many last gen games can run at 4k on a 680.

  • MarK

    The whole statement does sound incredibly arrogant. It seems, they expected us to be exited, yet somehow forgot to mention this “special Maxwell feature” at release. I don’t know about other people, but I’m usually not getting exited about things I don’t know about.

  • Mariachi

    People were deceived because this card can not use 4GB VRAM efectively as a whole package. It is 3.5GB + 0.5GB. But what’s more disapointing is that 512MB is in fact like a chain ball hindering leg (when in use).

    I think that many people are down playing this problem because they dosen’t know how memory subsystem in GPU works. For starters graphical data are spread between all shared memory modules to achive best memory parallelism and bandwith.

  • Captain Stabby

    I think you got something on your nose, they are not going you send you gifts.

  • ReccaJo

    “We won’t let this happen again. We’ll do a better job next time by making sure no one finds gimped parts of GPU.” ;>

  • hunniemunch

    How about the fewer ROPs and less L2 cache? is that a new feature too? Can you explain that too sir? Thank you. 🙂

  • As a reviewer, and a customer – I found it absolutely disgusting.
    Not only did you lie (where you should be legally punished), but you also refused to admit it for months. Furthermore, NOTHING has been done for customers wanting a full refund.
    This crap that you’ve written isn’t even an apology, it’s a “Hey we kind of screwed up, but this was made by design”.
    I find this whole thing a sham and I was about to purchase SLI 970, just as the news broke out.
    because of what happened and more so Nvidia’s reaction to this – I sold off my SLI 680s and I’m awaiting to buy AMD’s 3 series cards.
    You lost a loyal customer.

  • NowAMDFan

    And whats with the L2 Cache 2048 KByte -> 1792 and ROPs 64 -> 56? A new feature too?

  • Andreas

    Sorry but this is nor an acceptable excuse nor good explanation. If you buy a car with 400PS you expect to have 400PS not fractions of it. Even on the package of the 970 is printed 4GB, 256bits. And you forgot to mention that nVidia also didnt tell the truth in terms of the amount of 2nd level cache and the number of ROPs which is not unimportant for certain generic functions.
    All in all you made the product appear to be the little brother of the 980 with not too many differences. But at the end of the day many things which you told were simply wrong.
    Last week I installed Star Citizen and discovered also on my 980, that the GPU load is at 98% and the Graphic requirements are 3,9 GB !!!
    The games are actually already there, not only Star Citizen requires this much amount of RAM …
    So the current design of the 970 is simply bad for those new games. And the card is still expensive enough that such design limitations should have been communicated upfront, to be able to draw a wise decision whether its worth to spend that much money on a crap (oh sorry) cheap design with limitations.
    Sadly I had to buy the 980 then, but all the hassles and time that this took is remembered nVidia. As soon as there will be real alternative I will try to use them.

  • Andreas

    Honesty seems to be forgotten in nowadays business.
    I forgot to mention that the excuse, there was miscommunication to the marketing was a real lame excuse.
    A german IT magazine told, that you look very very closely to every online review and double check whether there are any mistakes in it which potentially make the product worse than it is, this means you definitively pay attention very very closely.
    So its very very unlikely that you have this lousy way of communication internal and even IF by accident, then at least you should have been noticed wrong communicated data in all the online reviews, search portals worldwide, which all had the wrong data in it.
    A real excuse would have been accepted.
    But you at nVidia think we customers are muppets with which you can play your strategic games. Do you think we are somehow stuid or what ?
    Its really very disgusting (cultural differencies may play a role, but come on you are a global player, get used to it) that you can’t communicate clearly even right now.
    I would wish, that your communication towards the customer will be more honest in the future.

  • afrogunso77 .

    How did they get 6gb on the gtx970m?

  • Gary Cribbs

    I guess we will hear about the other great “features” like the reduced ROP and reduced L2 cache in an upcoming blog.

  • Buy AMD now!

    Jen-Hsun: “This new feature of Maxwell should have been clearly detailed from the
    beginning.”

    OFFICIAL TECH SPECIFICATIONS STILL NOT CHANGED!!!
    http://www.nvidia.de/object/geforce-gtx-970-de.html#pdpContent=2

    Are you kidding me? Are you kidding us all? Are you really kidding your customers?

  • Chung Li
  • Chung Li

    The game not crosing 3,5gb on 4k?

  • never again!

    @ Buy AMD now!

    yeah! Cannot believe it. Shame on you and Nvidia Jen-Hsun……..

  • Buy AMD now!

    Jen-Hsun: “This new feature of Maxwell should have been clearly detailed from the beginning.”

    OFFICIAL TECH SPECIFICATIONS STILL NOT CHANGED!!!
    http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-970/specifications

    @ Jen-Hsun

    Are you really kidding me? Are you really kidding us all? Are you really kidding your Customers?

    Thats ridiculous!!!

  • no name

    Nvidia is deleting comments here!!!!

  • GTX

    i would say: its not a bug – its a feature 😉

  • Krakn3dfx

    Nvidia removing comments/images they find offensive.

    Apparently they don’t find lying to customers and misrepresenting products as offensive.

  • Simon Flynn

    Market Share is the real motivation behind this. They wanted to cripple AMD’s similar offering.

    I hope AMD come at them as well.

    And I have made a copy of this page with this post in case you try to delete it.

  • Jen-Hsun Lovesyou

    Jen-Hsun – Steve Jobs reincarnated?

    Its a feature not a problem!!

  • ShamefulOntarioCitizen

    I agree. I. Dont.Care if the card is good for the price. If i would of known about all of this i would of never got the card in the first place. I want 4GB, its for 4k and for the future gaming. I am still extremely pissed off and i haven’t even touched my computer after as a result of this.

  • ShamefulOntarioCitizen

    This is insane!!!!!!! I bought his card for the SOUL purpose of the 4 GB. I. DONT. CARE. if the card is still “good for the price”. The point is i wanted a FOUR GIGABYTE CARD, for 4k and future gaming. I wanted to get a card i can use for a very long time. I have had NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS ever since i got the card, FPS DROPS, STUTTERING, LAG. I’ve spent countless hours trying to probe the problem and wasted SO MUCH TIME that i should never have done in the first place!!!!! I’m really upset about this whole situation.

    I want my money back. I will save it and invest in a better card. If i would of known all this from the REAL ROPS to CACHE and the GB i would have never bought this card in the first place.

  • Ghangame

    AMD sell the fx x8 series which is supposed to be an 8-core processors. However, there are just 4 with 2 per one (4 physical) which means I could take this as a lie too. In other words both brands are not advertising their products honestly.
    I’m actually happy with my gtx. When I was choosing the card, I was aiming to get 3x higher performance than gtx 460. Well, now I’ve got even 3.2x.
    I’m not a cyborg – I don’t even know what a bus or a cache is. And I’m not ashamed because probably 90% of the PC Gamers as know either. The whole scandal started when some Russian guy checked the GPU under a microscope. If he hadn’t revealed what he found, I think nobody would know about that now.

    OK Jen, I’m forgiving you, but for that I want GTA V for FREE. 😀

  • Simon Flynn

    AMD always stated it was an effective 8 cores. They never lied about it.
    If that’s a problem to you why don’t you try and start a class-action lawsuit against them?

  • Ghangame

    hmmm… Why? May be because I don’t care. AMD’s products are make an airport experience.

    In this case i could sue, MC Donald’s, KFC, dairy Milk campanies, LPD, Google, Cineworld, Apple, Sony, Ford and Toyota.

    in 4k resolution GTX 970 has higher framerate than R9 290X anyway.

    This is shame, what Nvidia did to us, and i hope we will be rewarded somehow for that.
    For now I finished here.

  • Simon Flynn

    LOL, loser
    Read unbiased reviews and the 290x comes out on top.
    But that’s not the argument. Nvidia blatantly lied. They must be punished

  • Dave

    Just a thought…….Its real easy to give back but be warned…………this is a huge company and no way will they not include any lose in their next release. I personally think this card performs very good FOR THE MONEY. You can be assured that the next card will be a higher price…………I wonder why. They admit mistake and now let your economics common sense decide.
    Think about this before punishing nvidia.

  • XB99Z

    It was a lie to sell a card based on false specs. I’ll never buy a new card from Nvidia ever again, only used ones so Nvidia doesn’t get the money. Pathetic. Please don’t buy new cards from Nvidia, don’t give them your money, get them used from Amazon, eBay etc

  • XB99Z

    They aren’t and they never will. They showed what an unethical company they really are.

  • XB99Z

    No it isn’t. With a GB less VRAM you will ALWAYS have problems and junk fps with stuttering once you breach 3GB same with any card that hits the VRAM limit.

  • havoknation

    We want GTA5 steam copy as compensation else return our money back.

  • Simon Flynn

    You have no idea do you. You obviously enjoy being lied too.

  • Simon Flynn
  • dalew101

    The only reason why I am looking toward Nvidia cards is because the 4K drivers are better than another company out there with the R9 series 🙂

  • Marcoevich

    “It’s not a bug, it’s a feature!” Yeah, right Nvidia!

  • Chris Martin

    Call to ask for resolution and all you get is spin. Despicable action and last card I buy. I expect truth when I buy a product, not lies and falsehoods.

  • Dave

    no idea of what………..business economics? ………..are you this upset at the economics of our current government? I think you misunderstand my point. Lying is never good or acceptable. If you didnt like the performance of the card when you got it why didnt you return it?

  • Erik

    Different memory architecture. Each 512MB of VRAM has its own memory controller, which then feeds into L2 cache, then into SMs (clusters of shader units). Because of the amount of enabled units on the GTX 970, the final 512MB doesn’t have a complete path so has to piggyback on the L2 cache and crossbar path of the 512MB before it.

    I wish Nvidia had just sold the card as 3 or 3.5GB though.

  • AngryBadger

    Just wanted to share my experience with Amazon. #YMMV but they just gave me a full refund and labeled this issue a ‘manufacturer’s defect.’ 🙂 As for people happy with the card, I am happy for you; but I had issues crop up and figure this may be the culprit. Moving to a different card now. #Decisions

  • Erik

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE7fUhcpncg

    Looks like Far Cry 3 at 4K isn’t an issue with 3GB of VRAM at 4K on ultra. Not even using 2GB of VRAM. I think you people seriously overestimate how much VRAM is needed.

  • Simon Flynn

    Err so you are agreeing that people should be able to refund the card once they realize the performance of it is crippled.
    Well that’s start.
    ***round of applause***

  • AllMyPixels

    Sorry Jen-Hsun,
    but your blogpost just makes things even worse, because you’re blatantly telling lies to our faces yet again…

    “This new feature of Maxwell…”??
    Wow…seriously Jen?

    “Failed to communicate this internally to our marketing team”??
    How come the wrong specs are hardcoded into hardware and can be seen with tools like GPU-Z & etc? Is your marketing team also responsible for programming? What about L2 cache and ROPs? How do you explain this?
    You can’t.
    The whole thing was obviously a marketing ploy gone wrong.

    With all those lies, you just continue to damage Nvidia brand name even further while losing the last bits of customer’s trust you still have left in the the process.
    It’s just sad, really…

    Even though i don’t enjoy that kind of shadenfreude, I really hope that nvidia gets that so very necessary and so long overdue slap on the fingers in the ongoing class-action lawsuit. I also hope that this slap would be loud enough for them to rethink their business practices.

    As for me, I’ve spent thousands on Nvidia cards in the past and never owned an AMD card in my life, but you can probably guess what brand my next card will be, once i get rid of
    GTX 970.

    What Nvidia did and still doing is beyond unacceptable. Vote with your wallets people.

  • Brules

    In other words we nerfed the card so it wouldn’t perform so well when compared to the over priced 980……

  • Peter Nichols

    I could strap 4gb of RAM to a cat if I wanted to, but unless that cat can use it as effectively as I say it can, it doesn’t make much difference.

    If I emphatically assure you that the cat will perform to a certain standard and it doesn’t, then you lose out as a consumer of that cat.

  • The Shiller (D W)

    He obviously does not know is video card architecture. The 3GB is not a framebuffer. The FrameBuffer is an allocated section of the VRAM used for rendering pixels which are to be viewed on the monitor at a particular resolution. Typically, the graphics driver will allocate at least two Frames for a particular ViewPort. The rest of the VRAM would be used for other things like TextureCache.

    FrameBuffer
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framebuffer

    FrameBuffer: OpenGL
    https://www.opengl.org/wiki/Framebuffer

  • The Shiller (D W)

    We are on Far Cry 4 now.

  • The Shiller (D W)

    What makes you think that I don’t know the difference between ‘insinuating’ and ‘incinerating’? I hope you are not incinerating that I am stupid.

  • Grinder

    Nah, AMD FX procs do actually have 8 integer cores

    http://i.imgur.com/nsgFLDF.png

    Rather unique design, but it failed as most applications don’t scale well to 8 threads. The idea was by tying two integer cores to the same frontend, backend, and FPU, it would allow denser integer performance overall. Steamroller also recently doubled the front end count, so each integer core has its own, further blurring the line between core and module on these buggers.

    Bus is essentially how many physical lines there are between the memory and the internals of the card. Cache is extremely fast storage within the card itself to act as a buffer, the card has only 1792kb of it compared to 2048kb. They also lied about the ROP count, being only 56 compared to 64 as marketed. It was found when the card crapped out when people took it past the 3.5gb memory limit, so people began looking closer at it.

    http://i.imgur.com/u3qEyar.png

  • Grinder

    Wait for GM200 or 390X if you want a 4K card, will only be a few more months.

  • Grinder

    Don’t forget that 4K frames at 24 bit depth typically take 190mb individually.

  • Erik

    Of course, but the person I responded to specifically mentioned Far Cry 3. Even in Far Cry 4 at ultra 4K the game doesn’t require more than 3GB of VRAM (though it would require SLI if you wanted a playable framerate lol)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3EMHcDcDHM

  • 970 isn’t a 4k card……

    It is an awesome 1080p and a very good 2k card, 4k not so much….

    In fact, to play 4k right now, you need at least 2 top tier cards minimum.

  • Every CEO is the same. Period.

  • Nihilum

    New feature. Wow, really?
    Hey I got this new feature for my wallet. It doesn’t open for Nvidia’s lies anymore.
    Grow a pair and admit you made a mistake, jeez.

  • Ghangame

    That’s ashame nvidia has deleted my comment. – The true comment about the marketing and law.

    If you want to sue the NVIDIA’s corporation by yourself I just can wish you best of luck.

    Coming back to the topic about the performance:

    http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

    Can you see AMD on the top?

    PS. Don’t call me a loser if you bought the same GPU.
    Got a problem with that? – Buy a console.

  • Jason

    Let them raise the price any which way they want.. They will NEVER get another cent from me.

  • Marcus

    you wouldn’t be keeping the card if you got the refund. you have to ship the item back to receive it.

  • Dave

    Dont shoot yourself in the foot over this….you bought from nvidia because they were the best. Now what. I ask again what really are you upset about…..did the card not perform to your liking? I just found out about this lie just today but for months have enjoyed any new game out there on highest settings…..what more could you want……great performance and low price. I would agree with you if you could please tell me a better card to use.

  • o0cacoto0o

    That’s what im saying. If they make the 970Ti, we return to Nvidia the 970 and get the 970Ti. Id like that compensation tbh or something similar. But for now, I’m happy with my 970, but disappointed that the card I bought isn’t up to spec like they said. Sadly where I live they dont sell the reference 980 and it is 200 more.

  • monteboss

    Last time I bought a NVIDIA card my whole village burned in fire.

  • Joshua

    I’m getting a full refund

  • SkyrimGamer74

    Then go ahead and purchase AMD junk lol. See how you like their awesome buggy drivers on a continuous basis. Lol.

  • Himson Li

    I wonder if nVidia would commit a crackdown on the comment section seeing nobody buys Huang’s words. (Yes? then the R9 290’s 4GB V-ram is a “miracle feature”)

    “If they do, their journey towards the DARK SIDE would be complete!” (Emperor’s evil giggles)

  • MarK

    Let them raise their prices, if prices go up your consumer base shrinks. That’s also economics 101. And seeing how Nvidia likes their market share…

    The only reason they were able to sell that much 970/980 was because AMD didn’t had anything to compete at the point of release (although a 290x seems to cut it close if you disregard the power consumption). I’ve learned from this and will be waiting for AMDs answer next time Nvidia brings out a new (probably overpriced) card.

    Why are you defending this kind of practises anyway? Nvidia made a mistake, and I really can’t imagine nobody noticed until users started asking questions (and even then it took a while for them to come out). And now, after admitting their mistake, they’re just saying “deal with it”? That’s just not done for a company of this size (or any size really).

  • MarK

    That’s only one benchmark though (and it does not mention anything about the frame times you mentioned in your previous comment).

    As far as real-life 4K performance goes, I have the impression it really depends on the game as to which card yields the best FPS (although frame times do not say everything). This might be due to some games being optimised for Nvidia more than AMD.

    http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_970_sli_review,21.html

    Taking into account that the 290x was released a full year before the 970 (and being cheaper for the matter), the only real plus that the 970 has over a 290x seems to be the lower heat, power consumption and noise.

    But this whole 970 vs 290x isn’t really the core of the discussion here. You can argue about that, but to me this discussion comes down to preference really.

    I guess most of us can agree that what Nvidia did was shady at the least, so let’s focus on that rather than bicker amongst each other.

  • xLGx KillSwitch KD

    Nivida even got the number of Rops and cache wrong in the specs it wasn’t just the memory that was wrongly listed.

    I bought my gtx970 card on Amazon thinking it was more powerful than it was. I think people deserve some compensation it doesn’t have to be huge just offer something!

  • Spider Jerusalem

    l2 cache as well.

    Nvidia sold us cards that turned out to be a whole lot less future proofed than we were told. That is what it all boils down to.

  • Spider Jerusalem

    The drivers are doing their darnedest to prevent anything from using the slow ram, leading to issues with games seeing 4gb reported, telling the drivers “come on, give me that ram!” and drivers going lolnope.

  • AllMyPixels

    You haven’t got this card to shutter “YET”.

    And this is only because there are currently only a handful of games that tax/require over 3.5GB of video memory. This is the reason why it took for people so long to notice problems and lies that came with GTX 970 cards.

    What do you think will happen few months down the line, where recommended specs for games will be bumped up to 4GB video RAM? This card is not future proof.

  • DriverGTS

    “Hold on, this is waiting to be approved by The NVIDIA Blog.” Censure powered by: sad Nvidia fanboys and Nvidia employers

  • Emoclaw

    ^^
    Or one R9 290X minimum

  • George

    i just wanna say that i want my money back. I dont want lies . next time amd and no more lies from nvidia

  • DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURES

    That is why they can not add “easily” as AMD.

    I own a 970 in sli 😉
    I aint happy about this chit either, but there are way to many “clueless” gamers that do not own the card spouting off BS.

    If this card is used for it’s intended purposes in 99 percent of the cases it is just fine. This card is not intended for 4k, never was and any gamer with any technical background understands this. My own testing has shown me that 1080p and 2k works fine, which is what I bought these cards for. I hope they can do some driver optimizing and the such to help FCAT at high VRAM loads.

    I also own a 290 crossfire(I owned a single card bought another just to test) rig. I tested several games on each and they both competed with each other just fine. I did test@1080p and 2k. 4k is out of the question, if somebody bought this card for 4k They are clearly uneducated in the matters of GPU effectiviness at 4k. Which is pathetic in 75 percent of the games most people play. Even in SLI I wouldn;t recommend it nor the 290. You need at least 980 in SLI or 290x in CF or a 295x.

    I do think we as buyers should be compensated. I believe their was at first mis-communication, but i do not buy the BS they just found out due to the recent uproar. I think they hoped it would pass over with out anybody noticing. I think they realize their mistake. I also believe we will never have this issue from Nvidia again. Some other BS, prolly. See, all companies are out for one thing and one thing only. Profit. Period. The PR perps can spin it any way they want and you can buy into that if you want, but i am here to inform you and anybody else that is clueless. None of them care unless it hurts their “profits”

    Which is why I support the backlash against Nvidia. I support the lawsuit brought against them. They should make it right. The arrogance displayed is not helping either. What I do not support is the nerd rage. The” I am never buying Nvidia” again, and the AMD is so perfect and honest. They aren’t. None of them are. Sooner or later AMD will have a debacle. I can;t wait to see all the “nerd ragers” say ” I am no longer buying AMD” Then they will be out of PC gaming for good. Which isn’t a bad thing from my perspective. Have a great day!

  • Simon Flynn

    err AMD r9 295×2
    Same price as 980 on with discount. 40% fastgamesfastest graphics card in the world.
    You are not very clued up. Are you.

    Or wait for the 390x
    Brand new HBM ram which nvidia does not have access to.
    Gonna blast 970 and 980 into oblivion.

  • ShamefulOntarioCitizen

    thanks genius

  • Bright Shadow

    Jen-Hsun, we your customers, already know about the binned chips you use on these boards, how you used cost saving measures make more money, leaving your customers with something considerably worse. You try to speak about how more is better and that only less frequently used data is in that segment, but no matter how frequently it will be used, when it is accessed it will slow everything else down. This has been shown to be true when using artificial tests to fill up the ram. Not only is it slower, but its only 1/7th the speed! That is a critical factor, and very underhanded, especially when anyone looks at your competitor’s cards!

    I own your gtx 970, and I have almost exclusively owned Nvidia cards, ever since your company bought up 3dfx so long ago for antialising technology. As it stands, I’m not sure if I love my card, or hate my card. It works great now, but down the road it will screw me over. AMD is trying to offer people like me a discount if i return my card, but I honestly prefer Nvidia for their architecture, drivers, and technologies. One possibility is to return the card and upgrade, but the cost is more then 50% difference on the price of the card, for much less then 50% improvement, plus it sends you Nvidia, the wrong message, as if its ok to screw your customers over because then they will pay you even more money. So I feel stuck. This is a PR nightmare for you because none of us are likely to forget this incident for years. Your only recourse if you want to avoid the anger of your customers, would be to own up to the fact that you were too cheap, and used faulty chips, and offer people upgrades to either a corrected version of the gtx970 or simply to the gtx980. Yes it will cost you money, but your customers will at least continue to trust you enough to buy your products in the future, thus saving you in the long run. If you continue to do nothing but deny that anything is wrong, and that this was all planned from the start and is OK, then you will lose droves of customers, including me.

  • Bright Shadow

    Also just wanted to point out about your statement:

    “The 4GB of memory on GTX 970 is used and useful to achieve the performance you are enjoying.”

    Again nearly any customer of yours following this issue, knows that in almost every circumstance in current gaming, that last half gig isn’t being touched, and in many cases the whole last gig isn’t even being touched. To try to say that what you added in at the very end of that ram is used to achieve the performance we are enjoying, is like a slap in the face to our intelligence. When it comes to posts like these, if your not completely honest with us, we will pickup on the bullshit. And right now, thats the last thing you want to be serving us.

  • You’re welcome simpleton…

  • Simon Flynn

    Give AMD a chance. Their drivers are better and they do not behave this way.
    The 300 series will be released next month and expect a %20-%30 increase in performance over Nvidia cards.
    Nvidia new the tide will turn when AMD introduce HBM Vram that will appear in the 300 series. That is most likely the reason they pulled such a stunt. To get maximum market share before the inevitable loss that HBM’s performance increase will help to give to AMD

  • Patrick.C

    Please use to compare a neutral game or nvidia/amd games (Nvidia: fc4, ac:u, AMD: BF4, Crysis 3, Assetto Cars etc.) then this leads to false adversting like nvidia itself with the current state.

  • Guest

    Mr. Huang,

    You and I both know this isn’t just about the memory slower bandwidth segment. What about the ROPs and L2 Cache size that were falsely advertised?

    It isn’t just the memory segment. Your attempt to continue defending the actions of your team is just more angering.

  • MarK

    I’m looking forward to the 300 series as well. However, I’m still wondering whether AMD is going to be able to reach the same level of power consumption that the 970/980 had. I mean: you could SLI two of those cards and leave enough room for oc-ing with only a 760w PSU. So I am really curious as to what AMD is going to present as an answer to the 900 series.

  • Marcus

    doubt they’d be giving you a what i guess would be a ~$700 replacement for a $300 card.

  • andrewskaterrr

    980 $550
    970 $320
    How would a 970ti be $700? It would be $430 area. Now a 980ti would be in the $700 range.

  • Its really great

  • FARTwarLORD!!!

    i will buy if i get a gas Discount !

  • InformedWatcher

    In the video it is showing the less intensive FPS areas and showing the less dense parts of the map.
    Take a look at Toms hardware’s 4k Benchmark for the results.
    Nvidia isn’t future proofing their products like AMD having the ability for 4k without dipping. Bow down to 3x 4k monitors on 1 290x 8GB memory 😉

  • test

    test

  • AEKabeer

    Reminds me of one the sellers in Hellgate London “If you use my guns they might explode… that’s a f@#$ing feature!”

  • daniel cho

    Thats fked up, I just bought the 970 because it stated its a 4gb card. I’ll surely remember this experience when buying any of nividia products. (I’m staying away) See I’m the type of person to eat crap food at a restaurant and when the waiter asks “is everything ok?” i’ll say “yea its great” and i’ll finish eating the food and pay my bill, I just wont ever go back to there. I’m not one to make a scene, return things, or looking to get a discount because I should have researched more and stayed away. Its my fault I bought this card that falsely advertised the amount of ram dedicated to gaming. Just know you fked the community that built the company that gives you a living. You owe the community “something” and just waiting for this to blow over isn’t going to help the damages you’ve done.

  • TJ McKinney

    my $400 NVidia GeForce 970 is crashing ALL OF THE TIME. screen goes blank! I’m tired of this I will be returning this to bestbuy this next week!

  • St889

    “Instead of being excited that we invented a way to increase memory of
    the GTX 970 from 3GB to 4GB, some were disappointed that we didn’t
    better describe the segmented nature of the architecture for that last
    1GB of memory.”

    980 uses 4GB – it shouldn’t have to be a challenge to get 970 to use it also. You know what you did; don’t bullshit us.

  • spec

    I happen to think the 970 g1 card is incredible no game currently has any issues that I play on hd, this card not only gives incredibl;e fps but does it all while being super cool and quiet. I certainly have NO ISSUE THERE.
    But the way you guys have handled the situation regarding the faulse advertising(the rops and speed.) is what I don’t like. You should have just said sorry for the marketing issue and given 970 owners like me a small gift of say a free game. To me that free game is for the marketing problem not the 4gig memory issue. Personally I totally agree that my 970 has 4gig, and im very happy that it runs like it does. So thk you for possibly one of the if not best gpu experiences I have ever had.

  • drrastovac

    You have 4gb? Man i have g1. If you run unity or dying light on gtx 970 you will see that card cant go above 3,5gb, but if you play on gtx 980 you reach 4gb. You have test videos on youtube.

  • Jason Hendry

    Iv only reached 4 gig in benchmark tests and the benchmarks increased by 1-3 fps and no stutter. I play in hd so the closest i get to using 4g in real life gaming for me is bf4 where I have seen 3.5 and again I saw no stuttering. If I learned anything it was how little memory most games like farcry 4, wolfenstien, tomb raider 2013 or even Crysis 3 use. like i said no stuttering on benchmark and no stuttering at3.6-3.7 in bf4 on full graphics. I’ve no intention of going 4k for at least another year or so and then it’ll be 3440 by 1440 anyway.
    I’ll be playing unity on hd soon and ifvi encounter that on my hd setup then yeh id be mad.
    I have seen alot of you tube video tests and if you watch well known sites ones I trust the the issue on 4k is so small and like they say are you really gona play at 20-30fps, I certainly won’t I’d rather go to medium or low settings, that alone would prevent my memory going over2 or even 3 gig lol. Also I’ve seen some vidios dovhd tests and its obious when you see games like tomb raider or bf4on ultra tuning at 30gps that those people have serious rig issues. I know the issue is there in certain hard to get circumstances but I’m betting most 4k players wouldn’t okay on bad or low fps anyway. You shouldn’t believe everything you see on you tube, there’s plenty of people that like tobtrol and also be deceptive.

  • spec

    ok I have bought and installed assassins creed. I have run it for 30 min on ultra settings everything. Not one single problem, Very smooth game, you obviously either have a pc issue or a game issue casue my game isn’t even coming close to using 4 gig lol. Its actuall ultra smooth like butter so I don’t get why your getting stutters dude cause im so not. My machine is a i7 3770k running at 4.5 a core, a ssd 240 hd a gtx970 g1 gigabyte on a uh5h board and 8 gig memory. I even have to say that not only is unity running ultra smooth its running wow is all I can say. Im not buying dying light but im guessing itll be the same. I suggest you check your pc, maybe you have some intensive applications running in the background or simply to many things either way unity is the same as all my pc games ultra smooth. My game has BEEN EXELLENT. Im pretty much getting 70fps on my machine and higher it never dips lol. Oh and talking about you tube have a look at this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYzb-1aXiTo I think youd beter take your pc to the doctors. Good troll not.

  • spec

    I was offered a full refund but then when I tried to find another card that equaled the performance coolness and quietness of the 970 g1 nothing came close so I kept it. I have have no issues, just amazement at how good thias card is. If I got the 290x id have a card that was neat the 60dba nosie loudness instead of 44-48dba when at full load lol. Otherwise I cant even hear the 970 over my 41-44 dba sounding pc. To me power usage and sound is very important and now I have that in a better performing card at hd im very happy, oh not a single stutter even in benchmarking when I hit that extra and slower ram, I really cant tell.

  • spec

    I be happy with a apology and a free game. or a 30-50 pound voucher of their next gpu line. that’s for the cover up bot for the great card.

  • spec

    I have mine for 4 months at ebuyer.co.uk, they offered me a full refund. I refused and kept card.

  • spec

    I just came from ATI and even though I was afered a full refund of my 970 I really don’t want to return to having a 90 degree jet engine sounding gpu and sorry that’s been my 10 year experience of ati-amd. I moved to ati when they bought in the 9700pro caus eaa had a little impact compared to NVidia back then. Thinks have changed. Ive had a 4850,4870, 5870,6870 and a 290x, they were all very hot cards and when I say hot I mean very worrying hot and all but the returned 290x lasted around 3 -4 years. Once I game them to friends they always died, im guessing the extensive heat had something to do with that. But not just that, in order to keep the cards and that’s all of them from melting the fans would have to run fast and that made these cards very very very load. That was a big issue to me. Watching movies was bad and playing games without a headset ouch. The I got the 970 g1 and wow I cant even here this thing over my 44-48 dba NVidia. Also on full load I see a small increase in sound 44-48 dbs. All my ati cards were around 50-60 dba when on full load, I usually spent another 30-40 pounds on my own cooling cause of this.
    Well drivers yeh ait are fine but when they sold to amd, that game me about 2 years of driver headache. they’ve sorted it now but in the time amd have owned ati I have had 3 times driver issues in like 10 years. Im not saying amd are bad cause they arnt but im not into load and hot not now that NVidia has shown us all the way lol.
    Ive only been on NVidia for 4 months but no driver issues yet and loving some of the control centre features, some are a lot better that amd catalisum and some arnt, but either way I don’t want a very hot card that sounds load. Also look at the history of both cards, they always swap and change position on a pretty much 2 yearly basis lol so nothing new there.
    But thks for your suggestion.

  • spec

    well let me a not very techy person and a idiot try and explain it again to you. Your gtx970 does have 4gig of memory, the fact it allocats it differently doesn’t change that fact it has 4gig, unless you don’t know how to count. whats really entertaining is you have pointed out the whole issue in one sentence. rops and chashe was stated incorrectly so that is seen as faulse advertising, the 4 gig isn’t that’s just what idiots that cant account or understand that 4gig does exist on the card. You could say that the 4giog was miss leading at best.

  • spec

    ik believe him I think it was a marketing error one that unfortunately they tried to cover for a little bit, ether way they didn’t do it on purpose not with such a great card they didn’t need to. Even if the packaging said 3.5 that wouldn’t have stoped me buying it, though 256bit was what won me over the 290x.

  • spec

    same process both NVidia and ati and back in the day 3dfx all did. Its also a practice intel and amd do on their cpus. Its all about manufacturing costs, and quiet frankly without it means increased costs to us the consumers so I say thks for that and keep it going.

  • spec

    he said sorry and he said yes its their fault hopefully this will follow with some form of compensation for 970 owners, but what more can he do than say sorry and yeh its our fault lol. You gota give them some credit unless your the kind of person that doesn’t forgive mistakes.

  • spec

    fk no thks that piece of crap is like gona be 19 mouths old by the time it reaches pcs, id rather have a newer more up to date game than provide any money to rock star the people that said fyou to the pc world. 19 months dude 19 months. Ive watched my friends play it on the ps3 with envy and I watched my friends play on ps4 and xboxones with envy now 19 months later its just unacceptable.

  • spec

    the 970 is a beter card on hd resolution and even 2k res after that the 290x kicks in but most have hd computers. but the power consumption isn’t a small issue because the 970 did deat all amds offerings while using less power that lead to slower fan speeds quiet pcs and qiet NVidia gpu cards, something I haven’t seen from amd in 10 years. To have a quiet pc qwhen watching watching movies and playing games was a luxury, well not any more as NVidia brought all that too use with the 970.

    And yeh they need to compensate people for the marketing error lie or not but I the 970gtx g1 is beter than anything amd currently have in single gpu hd state.

  • spec

    isn’t that dual gpu, with water-cooling? It does look nice but at 1000 dollars it should be. I saw some bench marks and in a lot of games my 970 oc g1 card beat it like bf4 and tomb raider. lol So its obviously not blasting that out of the water currently is it. Most sites agree that the 980 still has the edge lol, just google it and you’ll find that too. It is a nice card but at 500w the extra 120-160 pounds it would cost me just to run this card over 3 years is probably best served by sli 2 980s lol you’d save money there too. good try on the trolling though

    http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r9_295x2_review,35.html

  • spec

    crippling really im yet to see that on my 970, I was offered a full refund but unfortunately amd don’t have anything to compete. power consumption sound and a powful card are my requirements and as ive played and still play all the aa titles on ultra including bf4 at 130-145fps, that’s more than your 295*2 lol.)without any stuttering, then its hard for me to see your point but I applaud you for trying so hard. If your such a amd fan, they do have good cards to, maybe you should go post your hate there and well post our love here.
    I take it your a serious(cough ) gamer that plays games at ultra 4k setting at 20 fps, if so you’ll be getting some stutter lol. Personally im 50 fps or more, which even in 4k terms means that I wont see or even come close to any real world stuttering, anyway ill leave you alone to keep pocking at poor dave as I know that’s the enjoyment you really like

  • Guest

    talking about biasy why don’t you check the reviews your self properly. If your running a 290x oc and a g1 970 oc then in hd the 970 will beat the 290x in most games significantly, Even comes in 1st in a lot of 2k games, but at 4k the 290x wins. At this time most gamers on the pc including myself are still living in the hd world, though in 2 years I will swap over. Either way if you want gaming at hd and want something really quiet and less power consuming then its the 970 without question, if its 4k and you don’t mingd the heat and noise then its the 290x unless the 0980 is the same price ofc lol that’s being unbias dude, instead of calling other people losers why don’t you try and stop being one yourself and offer true unbias approach, Either that or keep being the idiot you are coming across as.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igzJzRm378g
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkuB2IUttyo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj0bZgTq1x4
    plse watch these reviews to get a unbias view on the 970vs 290 980 vs 980 lol don’t always listen to people like Simon
    Flynn hes obviously being very bias as you can see from these tests. My g1 970 is at 1541 and im getting 135-145 fps on bf4 just check out the 290x on hd bf4 oc lol. But in the real world I only get 60fps cause I turn on my syncing lol.

  • spec

    talking about biasy why don’t you check the reviews your self properly. If your running a 290x oc and a g1 970 oc then in hd the 970 will beat the 290x in most games significantly, Even comes in 1st in a lot of 2k games, but at 4k the 290x wins. At this time most gamers on the pc including myself are still living in the hd world, though in 2 years I will swap over. Either way if you want gaming at hd and want something really quiet and less power consuming then its the 970 without question, if its 4k and you don’t mingd the heat and noise then its the 290x unless the 0980 is the same price ofc lol that’s being unbias dude, instead of calling other people losers why don’t you try and stop being one yourself and offer true unbias approach, Either that or keep being the idiot you are coming across as.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igzJzRm378g
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkuB2IUttyo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj0bZgTq1x4
    plse watch these reviews to get a unbias view on the 970vs 290 980 vs 980 lol don’t always listen to people like Simon
    Flynn hes obviously being very bias as you can see from these tests. My g1 970 is at 1541 and im getting 135-145 fps on bf4 just check out the 290x on hd bf4 oc lol. But in the real world I only get 60fps cause I turn on my syncing lol. That’s the way the true cookie crumbles.

  • spec

    the 290x is beter in 4k for sure but in hd gaming that’s 1920 1080 the 970 and 980 both are so much beter in pretty much all games than the 290x and 290 its just fact so that’s another thing to add to your list.

  • linxxx

    you need do recall them !!!

  • Simon Flynn

    **Thumbs up***
    Keep funding corrupt businesses.
    Wahoo!!!!

  • MarK

    Never said a 970 is a bad card by all means. I agree with you that, taking everything into account, it is still superior to a 290x when gaming on full HD. Neither will I be saying if you have a single 970 and use a full HD monitor you should exchange your card.

    It’s the SLI/high res users that got hit the hardest by this. I know how to read a bandwidth spec (this is the real issue, probably not many had a look at ROP count or L2 cache they’re yelling about now) and 256bit is not the same as 224bit and another 32bit segment. Especially if both segments can not partake in the same read/write cycle.

    I just feel disappointed on how NV choose to handle this, which is why I’ll be waiting next time I’m in the market for a new GPU. If NV comes out on top and no discrepancies are discovered in the months after release, I’ll still go for NV, but this whole thing has really left a bad taste in my mouth…

  • MarK

    Wow, you really went out of your way to respond to every single comment here (actually impressed).
    Both cards are indeed good, but saying 3.5 at 224bit combined with 0.5 at 32bit is the same as 4 at 256bit?
    Has the cardost performance after this came out? No. Has it become less future proof? I’m inclined to say “yes”. I was hoping to go long time with my 2 970s, but this whole vram thing made this a 800 euro gamble. Either way, I’ve returned my cards and I’ll be doing every thing necesarry to get a full refund. After this I’ll see what AMD can give me with their 300 series. If they’re still too hot and loud, I’ll probably get a 980 which is more the card I intended to buy then the 970 was.

  • Jason Hendry

    Yeh it sucks that the spec isn’t what was stated and yeh nvidia should make some sort of gesture to us 970 owners. I wish I could afford the 980 but got a holiday, a ps4 and some fridges to pay for lol. Otherwise id have taken the refund and done the same, wait for300series and if not power better and quiet bought the 980 too lol. If id known back in October I would have just waited till November and bought the 980 lol.

  • Robdog89

    The GTX 970 TI will be coming out soon, and will have double the graphics capacity. TI unlike SLI, TI is literaly double the graphics power and is like running 2 graphics cards but is only one card doing the work, SLI is 2 graphics cards working side by side and have some downsides, but not many, just micro-stuttering and slightly more power (as in watts) hungry. However SLI can and will have upper advantages too.

  • Robdog89

    They are, give them a call or talk to an Nvidia via e-mail. or just look at the class action lawsuit.

  • Robdog89

    They are not unethical, they made an honest mistake, and they ARE paying for it, and they might even drop the price of this card in the near future. If nvidia was unethical, they would have keeped all these threads off web pages and neveer refund people and wouldnt have changed a thing about the card or its price. as far as i know i will always keep buissness with Nvidia Because, I know they WILL help me with ANYTHING I need, for example, i had a GTX 580ti that recently started not working, they gave me a brand spanking new GTX 770 ti. No Charge, free shipping. Thank you Nvidia.

  • Robdog89

    I partially Agree with what you have said, however Nvidia, cares less about profits than many people think, because, they have and will bend down and kiss your feet and help you out if you are having issues, they will fix it. Nvidia really did alot for me without having to spend money and at their cost helped me help others. I havn’t came across a Truly bad graphics card from nvidia, just lower clocked sometimes. i do agree that AMD is rather more for profits than more for them selves because they have hardly any support and their opperator was a moron, i detour people away from AMD because of their lack of care for any of their cards chips boards ect. and you will find people all day long fed up with AMD/ATI. they realy dont care about the products that they come out with, thats why you’ll see some of their cards will sound too good to be true. I too, Dont support Nerd rage. i just want facts, and i want the company to care, thats why i go with nvidia/EVGA .just saying though, if AMD was in Nvidia’s position, they would have just probably shruged it off and expect you to know what to do. or use an unorthodox marketing stratagy.

  • andrewskaterrr

    I know what SLI is and Dual GPU cards, I had SLI 670s. I don’t think you understand Nvidia’s naming or card design though.

    Here’s the problem with your logic:
    1. Dual gpu cards are labeled GTX x90 so it would be a GTX 990

    2. The x90s are dual x80s on a single board, not x70s.
    3. Card numbers relate to performance ie: a theorheitcal 970ti should be slower than a 980 because 980 is a higher number.
    4. The 970 is so close to the 980, just like the 670 was to the 680, that you can overclock them and get the x80 performance, so there isn’t any performance room for a x70ti.
    5. A higher number card costs more than it’s lower model, ie: x80 cost more than x70 so a 970ti would cost less than a 980.
    6. TI does NOT refer to dual gpu cards, x90 does. 550ti, 560ti, 650ti, 650ti boost, 660ti, 750ti, 760ti (OEM) and 780ti are all single gpu cards. The 590 is 2x580s and the 690 is 2x680s.
    7. There has never been a x70ti card, ever. (see list above for every ti card)

  • Robdog89

    It isn’t a full 4gig. Its 3.5gb -226bit with .5gb. AThey have other models that are true 4gb. At this point 8gb cards are overkill on price and power, unless your serious need of graphis in a buissnes setting, but not always the case. Why did they make an off card? It was just a bad planning of card configuration. why call it a 4gb? It is technically, the configuration wont let you use the full 4 gigs, this is why there is a problem. bad advertisement/marketing strategy. should have called it a 3.5gb since there are others with the same. Maxwell Architecture is just a name of a generation of the chip. there are anumber of chips in this group. they are typicaly hi end power chips, and they are great. just finding one that makes you happy is different. these cards can be low memory to hiend memory/bandwith/power{watts/voltage} example. GT740m is lower clocked than a gt755m-sli and has very different in quality and power. The prices can differ each month going up and down. but you can be overpaying for some chip that is lower clocked than others, in this nature it is wise to research all chips in this price range. There are alot more GPU’s out there than one can imagine. Some older GUs can be way more powerful than some new cards that just came out. weather they are worth buying is based on benchmarking that chip, and comparing the scores with others that you might be looking for.

  • Simon Flynn

    nvidia staff

  • Jason Hendry

    It is a 4 gig card. That’s not the issue. The issue people have is that .5 g is used at a slower speed. The lie or mismarketing is about the wrong info about tops and cache and speed of said arcitecture. After all this time and so many people explaining it you think people would at least get that right by now lol.

  • Jason Hendry

    You make some great points. The card is excellent and most people wont get this issue cause most people buying a top end card wouldn’t want to play at 20-30 fps. Likely they’ll lower settings to get a more palatable 59-69fps and therefore never going over 3.5 in most cases. But when I see 3.6 in bf4 I don’t get thee stutt er

  • Robdog89

    What AMD GPU? More than one AMD GPU? No AMD card [on its own] is close to Nvidia quality, unless you have more than one AMD GPU. your statement is not relevant. 4k res is not hard to achive. I run it at that res with 60fps v-sync, and trying to make AMD actualy hard unless you have more than one gpu with only AMD aproved CPU and ramm to match the cpu, in this case you will be spending more on your rig. AMD sure can be cheap, but its because their chips have mad problems like over heating on their R9 290x which is lower clocked and over heats compared to nvidia GTX970, benchmarks prove Nvidia to be better chips/boards/terminals and driver support from windows, unlike AMD windows nativly has all Nvidia aproved drivers. AMD is not supported my microsoft, thus not having solid/stable drivers, or having a driver at all. AMD makes more chips than Nvidia, however they are in the low end to midrange markets. Not only that, when AMD purchaced ATI, they just lost money and couldn’t recover their loses because the chips and quality were very poor. and your statement shows that you have not yet done any kind of research lack of arguable evidence that AMD is and good. The only thing AMD are good at is taking your money with no support, and scaming intel and nvidia customers on real Quality Performance Control. And wild claims that they have better products. Who ever told you AMD was better, wasn’t looking out for your best interests. And you should probly brush up on your facts before coming in to an Nvidia website to bash Nvidia users with little or no faqs of any kind. Here is where to start. http://www.passmark.com/index.html and if you want more proof and info. heres this. Notebookcheck.com << mainly for laptops, but has desktop gpu/cpu info aswell. and if AMD was any good I would have credited them if they had anything to credit.

  • Robdog89

    Nvidia and AMD are not responsible for future benchmarking, the website that dose the benchmarking are responsible. AGAIN not relevant. it dosn’t matter on the memory. it matters on what frequency Mhz your running and how much power are you useing to achive that. And provide a link instead of “look at toms hardware.” what am I looking for? what AMD GPU? Otherwise, what are you really doing here? No Faqs=waste of time to argue.

  • Robdog89

    226-bit….

  • Robdog89

    AMD still has no microsoft support and was not endorsed with/by microsoft. i dont have to subscribe to get any features with nvidia, and ofcorse nvidia know about the problem, but the have corrected it with more than enough accommodation with their customer base. they left out things Because there was already too much going on with the card and its problems. this is actualy one card i finally hear that there is a problem. at any rate the 970 and the 980 in the GTX family out perform the r9 290x with flying colors in all benchmarking websites such as http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+970&id=2954 and other sites of plenty. AMD is always trying to get into lawsuits with other CPU/GPU manufactures, always loosing at anyrate.
    Building/soldering computers since 1996.

  • InformedWatcher

    Oh yes lets talk about Nvidia now.
    GTX 970 reguarding the VRAM
    Blatantly lie to thier own customers about the amount of Vram in the card.
    Removing Overclocking on mobile GPUs.
    G-Sync running on non G-sync enabled cards? What could this mean? More lies to the consumers?
    AMD is providing the best bang for your buck to this day (290 wins as the best price/performance ratios.) as well free sync is the cheaper alternative to G-Sync all because that little sticker on the side of the monitor.
    Plus if you want to run multiple monitors you may need more Nvidia GPUs cause you don’t have enough memory to run them.
    Microsoft has also been proven on anti-trust charges remember? Not allowing competition and getting kickbacks from it?
    Nvidia is good at PR and making you believe whatever they crank out.
    AMD provides medium quality and medium priced products found in everything from laptops to fighter jets (Yeah AMD powers the electronics in military avionics)

  • MarK

    ROPs and L2 cache? I’m honestly having my doubts how many people have been actually looking at those specs when choosing their card. They are nowhere to be seen on Nvidia’s site and only a couple of reviews mention them briefly.

    The problem is indeed the slower 0.5GB segment, which is a direct result of the bandwidth (which by itself is a consequence of the disable L2 cache unit): speed = (bandwidth/8) * frequency. Thus, saying 4GB at 7MHz with a bandwidth of 256bit would mean 224GB/s over the whole memory and this is not true.

    I am not questioning the size of the vram, which still is 4GB indeed, but the bandwidth. Maybe my previous comment was not completely clear on this.

  • MarK

    It is advertised as 256bit, check Nvidia’s site. But it actually is indeed a 224bit part and another 32bit segment.

  • spec

    Not at all. But that’s just the kind of lame coment id expect from someone who doesn’t like anyone elses opinion.

  • spec

    ahh kk I agree totally with you that they handled this all wrong.

  • spec

    wohooo, actually ill be buying amd next time. I made my decision based on ram speed, that was what sold this card over the x290 for me so I will be switching company in 2 years. That’s not because of the mismarking or lie(depending on point of view.) that’s because they didn’t give 970 buyers any kind of financial restitution be it in the form of a game or a severly discounted price on our next NVidia gpu. however if your gona state specs and results for another card and tell people lies about that card you either forgot to do your research or you just don’t care about miss- information. The fact I find your comments incorrect is the issue here not me supporting corrupt business. Tell me do you have a phone, if so is it android apple or windows, all companies have done dodgy practices but I wouldn’t expect your closed mind to see that.

  • spec

    Lied to, you mean like some of your comments. If you were a corporation youd be corrupt simon

  • Green, not for long it seems

    You may say this “mistake” is accidental and it won’t happen again, thats very good, but think how much mess you guys have created. Im not happy Mr! U have let us down. Card is great…for 1080p in single but I bought it for near future sli upgrade but now? I don’t want a refund (have no back up GPU as I sold it) I want a card with the specs I paid for, not less (weird feature). Dont want to get stuck until you get the card back and refund me and then to buy new GPU. This what I will have to do if you won’t address the problem with proper manner but if so i defo go RED. I don’t like the game you play, you cheat!

  • Andreas Huber

    What about the Cache and ROP´s dont tell me this was also a mistake… NVIDIA you FAIL

  • John M. Madsen

    Interesting how my first comment has been “pending” for 3 days now….

    First lies and obfuscation and now censorship. This really is getting better and better all the time.

  • Robdog89

    Your right. Enlightening, I see the logic of the letter and number differences, i hadn’t really payed attention much to the numbering/lettering system. I am useing Nivdia’s GT755m sli http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-755M-SLI.106493.0.html

  • danglingparticiple

    Congratulations on releasing the Ouya 2! BWAHAHAHAH!!!

  • o0cacoto0o

    I agree, the 970 is a good card, and the price is well worth it, just that some of us, do feel lied to and for good reason. I don’t care about the vram, just the fact it doesn’t have the specs we were told. But the 970 I got is the reference one, and I’m happy with it. I still don’t understand why it runs at 80c under any load. I get nervous as I use it on far cry 4 all maxed out and the heat is at 80c. Mostly I’m testing and reading everything it’s using with GPU-Z, but the heat is a concern of mine as the fan is being used on 40 to 45%.

  • Jason Hendry

    I’m using a gigabyte 970 so its not a reference card. Mine runs at 70-72 on full loaf and about the 50s at idle so I think you do have a dodgey one there, but I could be wrong. Actually my fans I keep below 1600 rps so I’m guessing its a faltyb one.

  • o0cacoto0o

    I’ve been checking mine and I can later post some of my findings of the card, but it runs great. It idles at 40 to 50c which is fine.
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-4gb-gddr5-pci-express-3-0-graphics-card-silver-black/9855169.p?id=1219441201895&skuId=9855169

    And every website I checked, people say 80c is normal. So I don’t know, but I guess technology changed a lot from my 560Ti EVGA card from 4 to 5 years ago.

  • Jason Hendry

    hahha yeh I changed a 6870 lol so I know how you feel, im just happy I actually have a card that’s so quiet lol.

  • o0cacoto0o

    What I like about Nvidia is you’re barely ever on hold. When you call, they immediately pick up. And I was calling during the 970 Rage. They helped me set up my graphics card because they said it was not registered at all. And I registered it but I guess their system never accepted it. With all the information, they helped me set it up and also helped me with the ubisoft promotion giving me the free game.

    The 970 is a good card, yet what they did was more than a mistake. Lack of communication really affected things. With that said, I love my Nvidia 970 reference card, and I wouldn’t change it since it’s a sweet upgrade from the 560 Ti Ds,

  • Robdog89

    Your not even talking about the GTX 970, and muchless you don’t own one. You say, lets talk about the GTX-970, but your just talking about other crap. Your logic on keeping a conversation is rather horrible. And further more your just sitting on here trying to say AMD is better when clearly it is not. AMD was once good till ~around 2001 they had bought out ATI graphics chip manufacture. they tried changing them into AMD corp, and fired all the workers that have been at ATI for a good while. Then they start attacking intel and microsoft with lawsuits, claiming that intel and microsoft were steeling clients and customers. The court ruled in favored of intel and microsoft. Because of lack of evidence and lack of support for Information. and childish claims. AMD has been in several of these so called lawsuit attacks and not very many cases favored in AMD. When comparing the GTX 970 to ALL {ALL} graphics cards. it is relatively in a high end benchmark result {sortof near the top of the list}. AMD has reasonable prices for their cards, however beware of cheap quality in areas like their soldier, terminals chips and GPU Boards. resulting is shuttering, loss of quality over a short period of time, and overheating on half load And Unstable voltage/wattage variables. AS far as InformedWatchers information, is all one sided, jaded, and not very informative. Microsoft like everyone else {computers or not} have their issues. However, Microsoft was bought out by apple in the event of Microsoft closing its CORP, not for copyrights or anything. IT was because sales for apple were high than Microsoft. Apple bought Microsoft Because, Apple would then be a monopoly and would also have shut down {or have had steep fines] because of current laws. Microsoft has let competition go, and are starting innovative ideas carry them. This gtx-970 fiasco is not that big of a deal and there are many fixes and tips on getting them to work for you. Now as far as AMD goes, they have not been included in many collaborations with other computer names, and here is why. They have started too many fires with all the other companies and business in lawsuits, that it is no wonder that AMD has lost its edge and furthermore has lost many of their companies thathave made some of their products. The sole reason that the still exist is, because they have enough money from sales that they can buy out other companies that havent been in the PC world long. Lucent [A provider of computer cards and chip makers] Has been forced to drop AMD from sales and collaboration. The only other high end client is the U.S. government. The U.S. Government has been using AMD as well as intel or nvidia {evga}, Linux GNU and Microsoft . They use everyone. USE. need not say more. IF you really want an AMD that has short life span on all accounts, hardly any support from other companies such as Microsoft or Apple. [Support, I mean by, Updates, Drivers, Functionality of OS-UI, and many other reasons].] The GTX-970 is a Solid Card that still has quality and performance that Everyone expects, but just needs a little tweaking in the Driver Updates and VRAMM utilization. Other than that. I feel that the GTX-970 shows great promise in the next couple months to come. If you have A GTX-970, and have not yet to do anything with yet, give Nvidia a call on their card support team, and they will gladly walk you through it. I would recommend this card it has fixes. Apparently there have been numerous fixes in this matter of the GTX-970. Thank You Nvidia. The GTX-970 is manipulative enough to correct. I personaly would get the GTX-980, just because of its better use functions. BTW InformedWatcher, your not very informed and scared of what you watch, and stop blobbing nonsense, it hurts the people that want real information, not rants. your argument is invalid, your attempts on logic are futile. your are one of those people that watch AMD’s the Fixxer showthing [where they break Nvidia products]. Not only wasteful on many accounts, is really droll and meh. Stop trying to misinform people on half truths and partial lies. Try to be More Informative. not rant and crap like “amd is used by the military”. thats not making anyone want an amd. People want AMD because the prices cuts to accommodate for nvidia’s better sales and quality on new products, since AMD has lower end products. and to be as truthful as possible, AMD and Nvidia. Have differences for a good reason. AMD has no better High end line since they destroyed it long ago. Nvidia has their successor which is EVGA. now if you want true power, Go with EVGA, they seem to appel to REAL gamers with tweaks and over clocks, mods beyond. want crazy performance for the next 10 years? go EVGA, want only 6 monthes to 4 years of cheap crap, get AMD. I rather dont care what you get. I’D rather have people know what they are getting. Don’t reply Since this is just to get well informed. Don’t forget, Benchmarks are done by People that buy the product, not the companies, Keep well informed on your next benchmarked cards. If you want a good card and not spend lots of money, then keep up on what is benchmarked and view the scores. you might just surprise your self with what you by. For more information on Laptop GPUS/CPU in full detail i suggest looking here Notebookcheck.com, if your a desktop user then go here. http://www.passmark.com/index.html http://www.userbenchmark.com and to do your own benchmarks Here> http://unigine.com Knowing is half the Battle!!

  • Captain Stabby

    I’m sorry but the 4850 & 6870 are anything but hot cards. I’ve owned 4x 6870’s and 1x 4850 and still have 1 6870 & the 4850. The290x reference cooled card is known to be hot, but the non reference cards are fine for temps on auto fans.

    you claim all your ati cards were around 50-60dba yet here in this reference cooled 6870

    “We measured a 41 dBA when the GPU is
    massively under stress. This means that under normal circumstances, you
    can slightly hear the product over the regular PC noise. If your PC is
    in IDLE or you are working in desktop mode then dBA levels remain at 37
    dBA, a noise level you will not be able to hear whatsoever either (of
    course). ”

    http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review,11.html

    Yes the reference 290x will hit 50dba but it is no secret that the reference cooler was utter crap.

  • DAP

    you all make no sense the GTX970 tops the benchmark charts yet you all worry about a technicality with it… if you want more power get a GTX980

  • munchy22

    wow when I bought the card all the reviews all the people that bought it all said the same thing dam the 4850 is very hot running wont it break. Obviously 99% of reviews and people that bought that 4870 are lieing then.

  • axel flox

    Probably à gtx 970 with just 3,5 Gb memory was too fast.

  • Grinder

    A very good design lol. If only they had gotten away with. Got my refund and bought a GTX 780Ti GHz which IMO is a better card than the 970 and nearly as good as the 980 even if it’s only 3GB. Perception is the killer on these cards. The second hand value will plummet now.

  • You lied. You say marketing got messed up but that is utter BS. Until you admit you lied I will just buy your products used or go with AMD and if I go AMD I will lose out on PhysX but oh well.

  • There should be an apology and this BS about confusion with the marketing department is a lie.

  • BC Shelby

    ..I’ve read a couple articles that explain the difference in the 970 architecture from the 980 and how it works when all 4 GB are required, My concern is how does this affect pure GPU rendering in 3D applications using engines like Octane or Nvidia’s Iray (the latter which Daz 3D introduced two days ago in the latest beta of their studio application)?

  • rhase

    The hottest I’ve seen my MSI 970 is 65-67C, and my ambient room air is pretty high (70F). Mind you, the biggest workout I have put it through thus far is arkham origins on max settings (minus physics, they’re just on normal otherwise I’d be playing in rooftop snow for hours). Its fans aren’t even on most of the time; they only kick on when I boot up a game. It’s 30-40C idle. They actually kick off during cutscenes, too, lol. It’s a strange feature but it has grown on me.

    Still, I think they’re rated to go up to 95Cish, right? (No reference, pulled from memory)

  • rhase

    If they drop the price, I expect to recieve a check for the difference in price. However……… if they drop the price it is also the equivalent of them admitting they were trying to sell it as something it wasn’t.

  • anubis44

    What I find disappointing is that nVidia didn’t simply design the chip to allow for 4GB of full-speed memory for both of their two highest tier graphics cards in the first place, as AMD did. That’s precisely why the Radeons are using more power–because their design was meant to give their customers all 4GB of memory at full speed. Please don’t design a gimped 2nd-from -the-top of the line card again just to shave off some power consumption–it’s kind of like cheating, and now the entire market place will be watching like a hawk for these kinds of shenanigans from nVidia from now on.

  • ColdHardFacts

    I’d like to go on record by saying with the utmost confidence I will never buy from Apple, Gamestop, EA etc when it comes to unethical and deceiving companies.

  • guest

    If this was out when I originally was tossing up the idea of 970 or 980.. I would have gone 980 no question.

    The miscommunication is bullshit. It’s just a way to say “we lied but it’s ok ,please don’t sue us.”

  • David F.A. Domínguez

    I paid the equivalent to $800 for my card. Did you know that the world is big and there are way more countries than the US for example?

  • logat890

    Jeez whatever happened to honesty!

  • MarK

    Same here. Compared the 970 and 980 for weeks and finally decided to go for the cheaper one seeing that all but core speed/count was the same (and bought a second one a couple of months later).
    If they would have mentioned this “feature” from the beginning there wouldn’t be a problem. But instead they did not mention it and made the driver shove as much data as possible in the 3.5GB segment. Personally, I find it hard to believe nobody noticed this miscommunication until months after the fact…

  • editor

    all lies.sad is the promotion after u see what happend.and still u tell the people its a feature?no it isnt.its sad which arrogant way nvidia goes there.shame on you.
    i still hold my gtx970 because i had no other chance.but for future U NVIDIA ! must think about your ugly politik when happend a desaster.not the desaster u create is the problem.the problem is how u lie to YOUR ! constancy customers.sad.

  • editor

    196-bit?

  • Antennor

    Dear Jen-Hsun, It is clear that either Nvidia is either incompetent or lied… and I don’t think Nvidia is incompetent. Now to add insult to injury this is the weakest ‘apology’ I have ever seen. So in lying to us you have shown you have no integrity and now you have shown you have no humility. I really regret purchasing my gtx 970. This wont just go away Jen-Hsun. You have lost a lot of customers over this. This is not trivial to the customers you are losing. You need to do something.